First Manchester

[Y458 KNF]

RE: First Manchester

(10/04/2019 19:01)SF07 Wrote:  So, First lose two more services in Oldham with the 149 and 415 being taken over by Stagecoach. Leaves Oldham area with 14 First services: 24 (peak), 58, 59, 81, 81A, 83, 180, 181, 182, 184, 350, 409, 425 and X84 (peak).

Not many services left in Oldham I wonder if First are trying to chop down services before Oldham gets sold and that’s if it does

[gilesbus1]

RE: First Manchester

(10/04/2019 19:50)darylyates17 Wrote:  Not many services left in Oldham I wonder if First are trying to chop down services before Oldham gets sold and that’s if it does

Is there some hint that there is no buyer for Bolton or Oldham, I know Julian Peddle stated that everything wasn't worth more than £1 in buses magazine, and it seems strange no announcement has been made on anything else, although Rotala yesterday refused to say anything on anything specific, but stated to expect a larger purchase to be made by them later in the year, is that also linked to the situation at Bolton and or Oldham? or have they something else in mind?

The bidders after all seem to be diminishing/vanishing, or can we expect an announcement to say that TfGM is taking it over in some kind of caretaker role?, or is it to be closed and other operators register across the lot and then Stagecoach would compensate in other area's by De-registering competing routes elsewhere in Scotland, South Yorkshire or Southern England? Which First possibly need in South Yorkshire or Central Scotland in order to return those subsidiaries to profit also? When I say this, I mean gradually withdraw the odd competing service here and there or pass on the odd linking service between territories onward, such as Perth - Stirling, or Barnsley - Leeds and then First register it?

I am sure if this did happen then Stagecoach could acquire assets separately such as Bolton depot and various vehicles on the secondhand market, as presumably they couldn't get enough stock internally quickly enough?

Or perhaps we have all misunderstood the situation with First and the sale only applies to Queens Road and the rest remains indefinitely with FirstGroup as the £11.2 Million alters the Manchester situation to profit allowing them to continue till that money has been exhausted? which would be approx two years.

[motormayhem1]

RE: First Manchester
I'd heard the sale of bolton collapsed hence why there was no announcement.
Not sure who the prospective buyer was suppose to be though.

[Mrboo]

RE: First Manchester
Well MCT ( HCT Group ) I feel will go for Oldham maybe they will setup as new unit or just take over with MCT as they have lost the 396 did they retender for it as maybe a sign if they lose more Oldham routes? But like I posted before I see Stagecoach taken over routes and not buying the depot or buses. as then there be no issues saying they have a monopoly as they are taking on routes maybe even a new depot could be taken on but is there room at say hyde road / Middleton / Ashton to take all Oldham core routes?

[Mayneway]

RE: First Manchester

(10/04/2019 23:51)Mrboo Wrote:  Well MCT ( HCT Group ) I feel will go for Oldham maybe they will setup as new unit or just take over with MCT as they have lost the 396 did they retender for it as maybe a sign if they lose more Oldham routes? But like I posted before I see Stagecoach taken over routes and not buying the depot or buses. as then there be no issues saying they have a monopoly as they are taking on routes maybe even a new depot could be taken on but is there room at say hyde road / Middleton / Ashton to take all Oldham core routes?

I'm certain MCT will have still put a price in but in all honesty it's come as a relief that they have gone. Unlike other tenders there is literally no time on the 396's at all. To add to that the fact you have to pass two primary schools at the Newton Heath/faillsworth end it's just not not a nice run at all.
With the work MCT have lost at end of April it means it means the struggle for drivers to fill duties is over and the agency drivers can be sent on their way.

As for HCT, all I'll say is they haven't exactly opened the cheque book where MCT is concerned - yet! Can hardly see them bidding for part of First.

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(10/04/2019 19:19)joe_alker Wrote:  58 is also down as being withdrawn on notices and proceedings, but it's not clear who will take that on yet.

There is no money in TFGM s budget to replace 58 or (daytime) 415. It is deemed the 58 has plenty of alternatives for most journeys. Not sure about 415. Either. way, clearly no one else consider s either commercially viable.

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(10/04/2019 21:54)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Is there some hint that there is no buyer for Bolton or Oldham, I know Julian Peddle stated that everything wasn't worth more than £1 in buses magazine, and it seems strange no announcement has been made on anything else, although Rotala yesterday refused to say anything on anything specific, but stated to expect a larger purchase to be made by them later in the year, is that also linked to the situation at Bolton and or Oldham? or have they something else in mind?

The bidders after all seem to be diminishing/vanishing, or can we expect an announcement to say that TfGM is taking it over in some kind of caretaker role?, or is it to be closed and other operators register across the lot and then Stagecoach would compensate in other area's by De-registering competing routes elsewhere in Scotland, South Yorkshire or Southern England? Which First possibly need in South Yorkshire or Central Scotland in order to return those subsidiaries to profit also? When I say this, I mean gradually withdraw the odd competing service here and there or pass on the odd linking service between territories onward, such as Perth - Stirling, or Barnsley - Leeds and then First register it?

I am sure if this did happen then Stagecoach could acquire assets separately such as Bolton depot and various vehicles on the secondhand market, as presumably they couldn't get enough stock internally quickly enough?

Or perhaps we have all misunderstood the situation with First and the sale only applies to Queens Road and the rest remains indefinitely with FirstGroup as the £11.2 Million alters the Manchester situation to profit allowing them to continue till that money has been exhausted? which would be approx two years.

Briefly,
I would not take much notice of what a venture capitalist says in an increasingly business orientated magazine. Julian Peddle probably couldn't even find Bolton on a map.
The market in South Yorkshire and further afield has no relevance to Oldham. If, First simply close Oldham it would leave Stagecoach with monopoly of commercial servicesunledd GA take an interest. Stagecoach accomodating ex First work at Hyde Road depot in particular may depend on various factors but with continued De-reg or worse still Stagecoach's vision of an EQP combined with DfT failing to pay for the demands of the Clean Air Act, I can see the further major cuts in HE run services. Word is under franchising, Hyde Road corridor is UNDER bussed and that's based on peak times at the Manchester end of the routes. Finally, don't forget any negotations on company sales are idle speculation are highly confidential so forums such as this should stick to FACTs

[joe_alker]

RE: First Manchester
TfGM site now shows 415 as being taken on full time by Stagecoach and the 58 as still run by First, just with times changed.

[Brickmill]

RE: First Manchester

(11/04/2019 06:38)joe_alker Wrote:  TfGM site now shows 415 as being taken on full time by Stagecoach and the 58 as still run by First, just with times changed.

Must admit, I,m surprised especially with 58. A bit of brinkmanship I feel.

[Bevan Price]

RE: First Manchester

(11/04/2019 06:37)Brickmill Wrote:  Briefly,
I would not take much notice of what a venture capitalist says in an increasingly business orientated magazine. Julian Peddle probably couldn't even find Bolton on a map.

Do you mean the same Mr Peddle who once owned a share of South Lancs Transport - a company which had bought one of the depots operated by Blue Bus of Bolton ??

He has a long history of fairly successful involvement in the bus industry.