Northern Rail

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Northern Rail
Going back onto Topic, I decided to ask Northern Rail on Facebook if the Blackpool North Service was getting cut back to Preston and they claim theres no plans for that to happen (so in other words its bull)

[wirralbus]

RE: Northern Rail

(06/06/2015 22:28)SL64 JDZ Wrote:  Exactly - which is why it would be a poor use of ATW's stock if a unit was reallocated from Cardiff Canton (where the Pacer and Sprinter stock is needed a lot more) to Chester only to be used once or twice a day during the week. A two-car Class 175 would definitely be too large for that service

That wouldn't surprise me - but even so - the WBQ-ELP service is best left with the Northern franchise

If the Liverpool - Warrington BQ service is going to eventually become electrified , this service becomes very stand alone.

Is Northern Rail and the Dft hoping that the Halton Curve will be the saviour of this line , opening up new markets from Ellesmere Port to Runcorn to connect with Virgin and London Midland services there.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Northern Rail

(07/06/2015 07:46)wirralbus Wrote:  If the Liverpool - Warrington BQ service is going to eventually become electrified , this service becomes very stand alone.

Is Northern Rail and the Dft hoping that the Halton Curve will be the saviour of this line , opening up new markets from Ellesmere Port to Runcorn to connect with Virgin and London Midland services there.

Surely more could be done with the Liverpool - Warrington BQ service - I have had a thought of maybe diverting one of the 2 London Midland Liverpool - Birmingham services via this route (although I am aware this would impact on end to end journey times) or alternatively extending the present Northern service down to Crewe to improve connectivity from stations on the line between Wavertree Tech Park & Earlestown southwards if the paths are available.

[Sprinterdriver]

RE: Northern Rail
It sounds like someone isn't up to speed with the Liverpool to Blackpool trains, the original idea was that the service would remain running through with DMU's. That changed when the number of 319's went up from 16 to 20, the plan as I understand from this years winter timetable is that the service will split at Preston until the wires to Blackpool are complete.

All that is stopping the Bank Quay service going over to 319's is the number of units. There are currently 10 diagrams and 12 units available. As the number of units goes up then it will go over, indeed a 13th unit arrived last week (319374) but that isn't available for traffic yet.

SD.

[wirralbus]

RE: Northern Rail
If the Bank Quay service goes 319 where does the diesel Ellesmere Port services get resourced from ?

[Sprinterdriver]

RE: Northern Rail
Probably the same place it does now, the units for both the morning and afternoon services run empty from Lime St.

SD.

[wirralbus]

RE: Northern Rail
I would actually like to see a more useful service than what is presently on offer between Ellesmere Port and Helsby , only one of the services having a connection with merseyrail services at Ellesmere Port in the morning . You actually do wonder who does the train planning .

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Northern Rail

(10/06/2015 19:10)wirralbus Wrote:  I would actually like to see a more useful service than what is presently on offer between Ellesmere Port and Helsby , only one of the services having a connection with merseyrail services at Ellesmere Port in the morning . You actually do wonder who does the train planning .

If the number carries such a low number of passengers as you have previously stated - then I really can't see why it would make any sense whatsoever to put on a more frequent service with such low passenger numbers. The Helsby-Ellesmere Port route is a low frequency service for a reason - if the passenger numbers were high enough to justify having a more frequent service then it would be more than the twice daily weekday frequency it is at the moment. Whilst connections to other services are indeed useful this can't always be achieved even with planning - especially if the unit is diagrammed to operate elsewhere before or after operating the service. In this case as SprinterDriver has said - the unit has to run light from Lime Street presumably after operating another service

It would be a poor use of resources and it would cost the franchise operator more money to run any additional service(s) than they would make in fares. Unless something like a pair of Parry People Movers a bit larger than the Class 139s on the Stourbridge Branch Line were brought in to operate the route - then I can't see this service frequency being increased any time soon

[wirralbus]

RE: Northern Rail
The problem being is that it can not generate any more passengers because the service is little use to anybody two services before 07.10 and the others in early afternoon , what are these services meant to catch in the way of passengers .

This is little more than a service to keep the stations on the line from statutory closure procedures , the death knell was when the line from Hooton to Ellesmere port section was electrified .

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Northern Rail

(10/06/2015 22:11)wirralbus Wrote:  The problem being is that it can not generate any more passengers because the service is little use to anybody two services before 07.10 and the others in early afternoon , what are these services meant to catch in the way of passengers .

This is little more than a service to keep the stations on the line from statutory closure procedures , the death knell was when the line from Hooton to Ellesmere port section was electrified .

But like you have said even those two services have low passenger numbers anyway - so who's to say that any other potential services in the future would carry more passengers than the the two return journeys carry at the moment? I personally would like to see the route to Helsby electrified by third rail and transferred to Merseyrail with alternating services terminating at Ellesmere Port and the remainder terminating at Helsby. I think that would be the only possible way services on the Ellesmere Port-Helsby section of the line could realistically be increased - but even then would the low passenger numbers actually justify the cost of electrifying the remaining part of the line and Merseyrail possibly needing to find an extra unit or two to allow for longer services to Helsby? I'm not convinced it would

Basically there you have stated why it is a low frequency route and why it isn't likely to be increased any time soon