Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

[Mayneway]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(02/11/2014 17:17)wirralbus Wrote:  But do all routes require a service 18/7 though . Some routes the amount of passengers using them drops off a cliff and there isn't a market for fresh air is there .

I personally would like to see operators forced to run normal commercial services on bank holidays. At the moment operators can register a service to run every Monday except bank holidays, but with the exception of Christmas Day, I think all bank holidays should be classed as 'normal' Mondays (with the exception of school services).
The retail and majority of the industrial sector class bank holidays as normal days, shops don't observe Sunday trading hours so why should buses run as they would on a Sunday - where surprise surprise the majority of services are subsidised. Imagine how much tax payers money could be saved by doing this, plus it solves the problem of Christmas services. The services provided by operators on Boxing Day and New Year's Day are poor to say the least and unless you work in the Arndale centre or at the Trafford centre your stuffed. Ironically Stagecoach happily run services on 216 and 219 on Boxing Day and New Year's Day, against Metrolink!, even Hattersley gets 201's yet the town of Glossop hasn't had any bus service on Boxing Day and New Year's Day for as long as I can remember (I'm sure Dentionan will know when they did). It's no wonder taxi firms in some areas do so well.

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
With regards to Bank holidays there has to be a happy medium with regards Bank Holiday services.

Some Bank holidays its a case of the amount of passengers only really necesitates an increase in the service during shop opening times with the amount of passengers dropping off considerably once the shops have closed . I agree some of the services during shopping hours should be more frequent than actually are.

Boxing Day is a different case in point and is exacerbated by the fact that there is hardly any train service in operation on what is the busiest day of the retail year .

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I think that a Saturday style service should run on Sunday daytimes in busy towns/cities as most of the time, Sunday can be just a busy in these places as Saturday. As for Boxing Day, Merseytravel used to provide contracted services all day on this and New Years Day (very interesting just after Dereg as it wasn't the usual operator on these services) but in the last few years, Merseytravel have just let the operators run what they like on these days and in all but a few areas, pulled out of most provision. Not as much of a problem on New Years Day as has been stated as Trains usually run but Boxing Day when the Trains are off is another matter. My view would be if there is limited resources for these days, put them into a Saturday style service on Boxing Day and a bare bones service on New Years Day.

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I always enjoyed watching out for the odd operators running on Boxing Day on routes that they wouldn't be operating on normally.

Over on the Wirral I remember Green Lane vehicle operating the 172 from Woodside to Heswall , so strange seeing a Liverpool Merseybus garage operating on the Wirral.

Another route that in its day saw odd operators was the 284 Liverpool to Southport service.

[Mayneway]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(02/11/2014 19:52)Dentonian Wrote:  The whole idea of Deregulation was that Operators should NOT run commercial services if they felt they wouldn't be profitable. One of tenets of Deregulation was that cross-subsidy is "evil". Over the years, Public Holiday ops have been a bit of a joke. It took years to convince Stagecoach that even a straight Sunday service should be viable - and longer still for First and Arriva. At one time, GMPTE (as was) started to stipulate Public Holiday timetables on Sunday contracts, but for some reason they backed down, so some smaller Operators in particular still work on the basis that nobody uses buses on Public Holidays.
I can't remember when Glossop last had Boxing Day or New Years Day services, but Hattersley is a big council estate so probably still has many carless households. Having said all that, it is only in the last few years that Stagecoach have introduced Boxing Day and/or New Years Day services, and many suburbs still don't get services on either day.
I'm not sure the 219 competes with Metrolink, but I think running 216s on these days - unless City are playing at home - is a bit of tokenism on their part.
As for Metrolink in general, that is probably THE strongest argument against buses coming back into politicians control you can get as far as Greater Manchester is concerned.

I don't know. I used the 216 last Boxing Day to get into Manchester and it was fairly busy. I use a mega rider but I'm sure they were charging flat fares of £4 instead of singles. So I would imagine it's quite profitable for them.
Don't forget there's been a huge shift in the last few years. Not only from a retail point of view but a lot of shift/factory workers work bank holidays and Boxing Day is near enough a normal day.
Hattersley is a huge council estate although it's debatable whether car ownership is lower than in Glossop where incidentally there is two large council estates, Gamesley and Hadfield.

Stagecoach's line has always been that some areas don't warrent a service on Boxing Day and New Year's Day, but how do they actually know that?

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(02/11/2014 20:25)wirralbus Wrote:  I always enjoyed watching out for the odd operators running on Boxing Day on routes that they wouldn't be operating on normally.

Over on the Wirral I remember Green Lane vehicle operating the 172 from Woodside to Heswall , so strange seeing a Liverpool Merseybus garage operating on the Wirral.

Another route that in its day saw odd operators was the 284 Liverpool to Southport service.

CMT ran the 105/115/116 in St Helens with dual door Nationals. On the subject of the 284, I recall Fareway (whilst still independent) running the service. We have also had Blue Triangle with an ex-Ribble PD (unsure whether it was 2 or 3) on the 102 (St Helens - Ashton) one year.