Independent Local Bus Companies

[jimbo]

Independent Local Bus Companies
(Not sure if right forum, please move if wrong)

Hello my fellow bus lovers, it has come to my attention that quite a few people on this planet don't want local bus companies to succeed, some may well be badly run due to many reasons, but they always want to improve.
Recently a local bus company in Manchester (JPT) decided to ask the public how they could improve their service, and quite a few people have responded by saying many nasty things inc;

Quote:Pack up and let stagecoach transform the bus services of north manchester like they are going to do anyway lol.

Quote:Worst bus company EVER... Just blow all your buses up and get off the road make way for a propa bus company STAGECOACH they will only run you off the road anyway bye bye no good bus company

Quote:Hand the evening tenders back to stagecoach

etc...

What I'd like is some of your input here, maybe voice your opinions on how they could improve, or maybe find ways of expressing how local firms are important for all of us in many ways.


I am personally offended at people wanting a company to fail, I would hate to see the roads full of only 3 company's buses (i.e. First, Arriva, Stagecoach).

[Wright Eclipse]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies

(12/03/2013 00:39)jimbo Wrote:  (Not sure if right forum, please move if wrong)

Hello my fellow bus lovers, it has come to my attention that quite a few people on this planet don't want local bus companies to succeed, some may well be badly run due to many reasons, but they always want to improve.
Recently a local bus company in Manchester (JPT) decided to ask the public how they could improve their service, and quite a few people have responded by saying many nasty things inc;

Quote:Pack up and let stagecoach transform the bus services of north manchester like they are going to do anyway lol.

Quote:Worst bus company EVER... Just blow all your buses up and get off the road make way for a propa bus company STAGECOACH they will only run you off the road anyway bye bye no good bus company

Quote:Hand the evening tenders back to stagecoach

etc...

What I'd like is some of your input here, maybe voice your opinions on how they could improve, or maybe find ways of expressing how local firms are important for all of us in many ways.


I am personally offended at people wanting a company to fail, I would hate to see the roads full of only 3 company's buses (i.e. First, Arriva, Stagecoach).

wouldnt this post be better off in the JPT Thread,anyway,i can think of 3 ways JPT Can improve

- Get rid of some of there old scap or at least make it look half decent (ALX200`s could do with a repaint & get rid of the tape repairs)

- Look at links not yet used (Middleton - Trafford Cnt,Oldham - Manchester Express)

- look at investing in new buses again,JPT got to a stage were it seemed to choose 3/4 Olympians & presidents over a Enviro 400,or at least refurbish the current buses

- This is a long shot,but the Rippondon - Halifax services are due for re-tender next year,maybe if they bid for them & won,they could work alongside metro to bring back the Oldham - Halifax Link,maybe taking it to Manchester

i think it is bad who people want them to fail,but its only to be expected if they've had bad experiences with them,but in this climate we dont need another company going under & more job losses.

[jimbo]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies
My post wasn't exclusive to JPT - it was in general - I've had people bad mouthing other companies when i've worked for them, and wanting them to fail, what they should really want is for them to improve. I agree with you though

[VauxhallAstra VXR]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies
Get rid of the old busses get new busses have them with WIFI and leather, create a new livery, create a new motto,Buy new ticket machines, train the drivers into behaving properly train them in etiquette , get the local press to do a large article about you, give 5000 tickets to the first 5000 customers, make sure every journey runs on time, do a complaint hotline where customers complain about drivers , And if that dosen't work just give it all to stagecoach . Note: you might as well sell the busses for £20,000 each

[Bevan Price]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies
Not referring to any specific operators, but in general I think that most of the problems have to do with money (or lack of it), and sometimes allowing ambition / over-optimism to take over from careful planning. If a small "start-up" bus company achieves early success, it has two main choices.

1. Remain small, keep doing what you know you can do well. Gradually build up your finances until you can afford to run a small, newish fleet of good quality buses, or,

2. Proceed with expansion plans, buy (or hire) more oldish buses to introduce new routes, but find that these routes are not as lucrative as your first routes. Coupled with ever-increasing costs (fuel, maintenance, etc.), and with less time for the management to devote to day to day detail, there is a risk that standards may start to slip. At its worst, that brings you to the attention of the traffic commissioners or the vehicle examiners, or to financial difficulties.

At that point, you have further choices, for example:
(a) Revert to a smaller, more viable fleet size.
(b) Stagger on, never able to afford newish buses.
© Give up.
(d) Find a larger company who will buy your fleet & services.

I have no knowledge of the finances of any bus company, but I expect many people can think of various past / present operators who have followed some of the above patterns.

As for JPT - they have lasted much longer than many independents, so they must be doing something right. I wish them good luck for a long future.

[Mayneway]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies
Out of interest Jimbo, do you use JPT services often??

I think there are good and bad local independants.
I have always rated Stott's as being one of the area's best indie's. Their buses are modern, they are always very clean inside and out, the drivers are all extremely pleasant. I have to say in all the years ive used their services i have never had cause to complain.

Turn back the clock 16 months and JPT had it all, a nice modern fleet, a decent network of services and most of all happy passengers, but as is the case greed takes over and they try to take on the big boys and fall on their backs. They sell the modern low floor vehicles and replace them with twice as many old sheds, becuase they think a bigger presence gives them a better chance. The fact they are now asking how they can improve things on Facebook, even though the owner has been running the business since the 80's suggests they have run out of steam.

Its not just JPT, i think the same can be said about Bluebird and also Speedwell bus, Dennis's also tried many years ago and failed, and look at UK North. In my opinion these days independants need to be happy to run alongside the big boys and do tenders, but as soon as they start trying to compete, there done for!

[Wright Eclipse]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies

(12/03/2013 22:52)Mayneway Wrote:  Out of interest Jimbo, do you use JPT services often??

I think there are good and bad local independants.
I have always rated Stott's as being one of the area's best indie's. Their buses are modern, they are always very clean inside and out, the drivers are all extremely pleasant. I have to say in all the years ive used their services i have never had cause to complain.

Turn back the clock 16 months and JPT had it all, a nice modern fleet, a decent network of services and most of all happy passengers, but as is the case greed takes over and they try to take on the big boys and fall on their backs. They sell the modern low floor vehicles and replace them with twice as many old sheds, becuase they think a bigger presence gives them a better chance. The fact they are now asking how they can improve things on Facebook, even though the owner has been running the business since the 80's suggests they have run out of steam.

Its not just JPT, i think the same can be said about Bluebird and also Speedwell bus, Dennis's also tried many years ago and failed, and look at UK North. In my opinion these days independants need to be happy to run alongside the big boys and do tenders, but as soon as they start trying to compete, there done for!

i agree about stotts,we`ve got the other side of the business (owned by the brother of owner of Stotts of oldham i think) & having used both i can say they are both a quality operator,not too big big but have found gaps in market & have used them to there advantage

[M113 YKC]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies
Just a point that I'd like to make... Is it really about having new buses in a fleet? Personally, I'd rather sit on a well-kept 10-year-old bus (providing that it's low floor, has comfortable and clean seating and flooring, wheelchair space and good suspension) than a brand-new one as new buses are often of a lower quality than well-kept elderly buses! New buses don't assure quality, but older ones that have been refurbished and had plenty of work completed show that the company cares (slightly!) about the quality of their fleet! Age is just a number, in my opinion.

[jimbo]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies
I agree, old buses can be better, First's 2008 B9TLs are much better than the cheaply made Enviro400s - and old volvo b6s etc... are good buses.

As for using JPT buses, I have done previously - havn't in a few years - no longer commuting near Moston. Used to commute from Oldham to Moston and go to mid or manchester on the way back and i'd use which ever bus came first since I had a system one pass, so yeah used them, and as a driver i've spoken to JPT drivers, they seem to like their job as a whole, you get idiots in every company, and yeah they sometimes drive fast but it is the timetables... on tendered routes it is hard to change times, but on commercial routes they are set by the operator and JPT don't give them much time.

[Mayneway]

RE: Independent Local Bus Companies

(12/03/2013 23:24)3111 Wrote:  Just a point that I'd like to make... Is it really about having new buses in a fleet? Personally, I'd rather sit on a well-kept 10-year-old bus (providing that it's low floor, has comfortable and clean seating and flooring, wheelchair space and good suspension) than a brand-new one as new buses are often of a lower quality than well-kept elderly buses! New buses don't assure quality, but older ones that have been refurbished and had plenty of work completed show that the company cares (slightly!) about the quality of their fleet! Age is just a number, in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more. Its not all about having brand new buses, but as you say the quality aspect, but using JPT as an exapmle, they had brand new buses, they even promised their loyal Facebook page more brand new buses - which never came!
Its quite clear that they sacrificed their new modern stylish buses for the sake of winning a bus war with First, then Bluebird. They still have some newish buses, but their visually in poor condition with bits of different coloured door's on and bumpers ect.