Dreamliners

[CX54 DKD (Moderator)]

RE: Dreamliners
Just read on Facebook that the FAA have ordered the immediate, temporary, grounding of all U.S. Boeing 787 flights. That of course does not mean that flights cannot continue elsewhere around the world.

I completely disagree that this will cause a mass cancellation of orders as suggested though; Boeing is probably the biggest aircraft manufacturer in the world, some teething issues with a new jet aren't going to cause customers to suddenly hurry away to the likes of Airbus, that's just not how the industry works. You'll find that the relationships between airlines and the manufacturers are very old fashioned to the point of being a 'gentleman's agreement' style arrangement. Each airline has its loyalties and its rare they deviate from that unless for specific operational reasons - the loyalties that airlines accumulate with the manufacturers are valuable; don't think for a minute that regular Boeing customers pay anything near full price for the airframes. Take a look at American Airlines, regular Boeing customers for years and I should think that the kind of discount they receive from the manufacturer is staggering. They're not going to suddenly drop a large number of airframes from their order because of these issues which are, undoubtedly, going to be rectified soon by Boeing.

Besides all of the above, there's no real competitor aircraft currently in full production; the 777 doesn't offer the versatility or lower sizes/capacities required for charter airlines such as those within the TUI group and the A330 is nowhere near as economical or passenger friendly. The A330 also falls significantly short on range capabilities. Until such a time that Airbus are producing the A350, the 787 will remain the only aircraft in this niche bracket.

[H101GEV (Administrator)]

RE: Dreamliners

(16/01/2013 23:49)CX54 DKD Wrote:  Boeing is probably the biggest aircraft manufacturer in the world, some teething issues with a new jet aren't going to cause customers to suddenly hurry away to the likes of Airbus, that's just not how the industry works.

This I don't agree with: over the last 10 years, Airbus has received orders for and delivered considerably more passenger aeroplanes than Boeing has. By this logic, Airbus is currently the biggest manufacturer in the world. I'm not sure whether many airlines will switch manufacturers at the drop of a hat but it will certainly make a lot of them reconsider their future orders. Pressure is piled on Boeing and its response to this sequence of body blows now.

[CX54 DKD (Moderator)]

RE: Dreamliners
I was taking into account aircraft currently in operational service too - I should have made that clearer. I still stand by what I said regarding the loyalties the customer airlines often have with the manufacturers though; I think it'd take a lot more than teething problems which Boeing are, obviously, going to rectify to cause cancellations of orders. Like I also said, you have to remember that the 787 is somewhat of a niche aircraft as far as operational requirements go and while it remains so, I should think that current and future orders for it will remain very much secure.

[507 mad]

RE: Dreamliners
How are Thomson Airways, British airways and Virgin Atlantic taking this situation on?

[CX54 DKD (Moderator)]

RE: Dreamliners
Thomson (TUI) have their first two aircraft on the production line at the moment which will no doubt be fitted with the relevant fix. They NEED the 787 to replace an ageing fleet of 763ERs which don't meet their future operational needs in terms of range. Their orders will be secure still.

[SNL 824]

RE: Dreamliners
The Eurpopean Aviation Safety Agency has now grounded 787s - effectively currently a worldwide ban

[507 mad]

RE: Dreamliners
The whole fleet change is really important to thomson, The three oldest ageing first choice 767's are leaving as they are 21 years old are G-DBLA, G-PJLO and G-OOAN.

[CX54 DKD (Moderator)]

RE: Dreamliners
The ex-FCA 763s are to a higher quality, more recently completed, internal long-haul configuration however. 21 years is nothing to an aircraft so if they need to be kept on for longer, they'll do so - just look at the age of some of the 752s which are only leaving this winter and stayed to see out the last summer. But yes, the entire batch of ex-FCA 763s will be the first out accompanied by some of Thomson's original batch which are also now getting on. The only reason they're so 'desperate' to have rid of PJLO & DBLA is because they lack winglets meaning they cost more to operate. OOAN could be kept even longer and, the last I was told, is to stay put for a limited period once the 788s arrive as a, if nothing else, backup airframe to work into a rotation as required; the 788s are down to spend their first few months on short haul operations to increase crew T/O & landing cycles.

At any rate, Thomson aren't in a position to run short on aircraft (unlike TCX who have had an atrocious time of it, with airframes going tech away from base etc, since reducing the fleet size) as they have enough aircraft to cover any potential flights the 788s are preliminarily booked for with the 738s currently operating on winter lease for SunWings in Canada.

[wirralbus]

RE: Dreamliners
It now seems that the problems with the battery boxes may not now be with the batteries but with the wiring to them batteries , following testing of the batteries that failed , if it is the wiring then it is going to be a bigger job than first thought and more costly in the long term.

Boeing the makers of the Dreamliner shares are now down 4% from the start of the grounding .

[SNL 824]

RE: Dreamliners

(29/01/2013 06:51)wirralbus Wrote:  It now seems that the problems with the battery boxes may not now be with the batteries but with the wiring to them batteries , following testing of the batteries that failed , if it is the wiring then it is going to be a bigger job than first thought and more costly in the long term.

Boeing the makers of the Dreamliner shares are now down 4% from the start of the grounding .

not good