Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
I'm not sure if it appeared before or after MTL took over Liverbus but that 8D was around evenings/Sunday's only from at least the mid/late '90's. I think the 8D may have began in 1996 after the takeover perhaps as the Huyton - Liverpool links needed extra capacity back then and/or MTL might have had mileage agreement with GL hence the 8D, also Liverbus may not have had the allocation or drivers to simply up the 210's which might have seemed a simpler solution.

Didn't GL also used to run a daytime Sunday/Bank Holiday's 10D to Longview too around that period, I think that was due to the Endurance's on the 10A's being rammed with standing loads back then?

It was always interesting that the Arriva takeover pretty much finished off the old Liverbus services which MTL near enough left untouched for years after the takeover. Also interesting that ex-GL routes to Huyton like the 6/40 (7), 8/9, 75 (15) etc. all moved to Wilson Road and GL only had a handful of services, mostly inherited from GM like the 12/13, 14, 18A & 26/27 after the Arriva takeover moved a lot of GL routes to other garages. I always wonder if the electricity facility at Green Lane (which could be expensive/difficult) could be moved whether that whole area could be redeveloped and perhaps that may have been mooted around that time hence Arriva considering leaving GL?

Hard to think of that happening now as GL seems very secure these days.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
Wasn't the 18A[formily 18] always operated by GL, also 26/27 moved from Edge Lane to GL when Edge Lane closed, the 6 & 40 were Edge Lane based routes until closure too, may have moved to GL then Huyton before coming back to GL

Not sure which depot operated the 18 City Centre-Crosby after that was split, would have been expensive to run from either GL or GM

10/10A was a daft route to be converted to single deckers[as was most other routes such as 79/86], that route is heaving especially City Centre-Page Moss

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
The 10/10A were jointly operated between Green Lane and St Helens. In the latter years of MTL it was split (10 - St Helens, 10A - Green Lane). Think it was around April 2000 that it was altered so that all work was done by St Helens. This was the time when all extensions were withdrawn and the routes were simplified to just be Liverpool - St Helens.

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
Yes the 18's were always GL routes even back in MPTE days when they used to be in with the 17's as a circular. After deregulation they split the 17's off and they went to GM with the 18's to Croxteth and 18C's Fazakerley/Kirkby staying with GL. The '91 review saw the 18's cross city extended to Crosby etc. which got split to the 18/18A's a few years later. Strangely enough Arriva kept the 18C's on until 2001 when the 18A's to Croxteth Park were the only bit remaining more recently renumbered 18 and the current route we have now.

Again like the 28's mentioned earlier there is a possible 'need'/usefulness for a 18C style variation on this route but again with the much higher frequency on the 18's than in Merseybus/MTL days and the likes of the 62 and the 14's, 19's snd 17's running nearby the Muirhead/Lower Lane/Fazakerley sections can't see it ever coming back unless the current set up changes and a more franchised/subsidised network comes in.

I always thought Arriva's approach to GL was unusual it's PVR and route network (profit?) was much, much lower than MTL days and only when Huyton closed in '06 did it get a fairly decent group of routes back again. I think GL is a useful base for any operator close to the city and the North/South/Knowsley etc. areas also even if Arriva considered closing it in 2000 could the services have moved to Bootle, Huyton, SH, Speke without any real issues - PVR, drivers, traffic problems etc. Don't think so and probably it's why Arriva have kept it on and sort of developed it over the last decade or so.

Always good looking at these route histories even relatively recently they've changed sonetines a fair bit, in ways you don't think so until you look back at them.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
18C is another funny one, originally withdrawn at d-reg, reintroduced when Fareway started the F8, was extended to Kirkby Station for a time before being cut to Fazakerley, although stayed after the review the 18C was withdrawn not many years afterwards.

The original 11 didn't stay too long after the network review too, withdrawn by 2005, one of those routes that served what felt like every road in the area.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
Isn't one of the main reasons for the Arriva rememberings at the time, that there computers couldn't handle duplicate numbers?

Wirral network got renumbered to 4xx series which was already in use for most Merseybus cross river routes.

The 3A got renumbered to 423 however the 3A & the 423 used to interwork with the 437, so when Arriva diverted the evening & Sunday 437 to Liverpool the 423 got diverted to Liverpool too, i'm not sure when the 423/437 interworking ended & 437 got interworked with the 432/433 instead?

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)

(25/08/2020 17:26)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote:  Yes the 18's were always GL routes even back in MPTE days when they used to be in with the 17's as a circular. After deregulation they split the 17's off and they went to GM with the 18's to Croxteth and 18C's Fazakerley/Kirkby staying with GL. The '91 review saw the 18's cross city extended to Crosby etc. which got split to the 18/18A's a few years later. Strangely enough Arriva kept the 18C's on until 2001 when the 18A's to Croxteth Park were the only bit remaining more recently renumbered 18 and the current route we have now.

Again like the 28's mentioned earlier there is a possible 'need'/usefulness for a 18C style variation on this route but again with the much higher frequency on the 18's than in Merseybus/MTL days and the likes of the 62 and the 14's, 19's snd 17's running nearby the Muirhead/Lower Lane/Fazakerley sections can't see it ever coming back unless the current set up changes and a more franchised/subsidised network comes in.

I always thought Arriva's approach to GL was unusual it's PVR and route network (profit?) was much, much lower than MTL days and only when Huyton closed in '06 did it get a fairly decent group of routes back again. I think GL is a useful base for any operator close to the city and the North/South/Knowsley etc. areas also even if Arriva considered closing it in 2000 could the services have moved to Bootle, Huyton, SH, Speke without any real issues - PVR, drivers, traffic problems etc. Don't think so and probably it's why Arriva have kept it on and sort of developed it over the last decade or so.

Always good looking at these route histories even relatively recently they've changed sonetines a fair bit, in ways you don't think so until you look back at them.

The 17D/18D were indeed merged to form a circular 7D/8D Monday to Fridays with 7/8 on Saturdays which went via Great Homer Street to serve Everton Market, the same changes 12/12A/12C were extended via Sockbridge Lane & Waterpark Drive to form circular routes 12/12A/13/13A, the changes took place in 1984.

The 7/7D/8/8D only lasted until June 86, when they were split at Lower Lane & became 17D/18D.

18D was withdrawn at d-reg along with the 18C

The 12/13 have stayed the same with the City Centre start/terminus moving about after the Pier Head bus station closed

I'm not sure when the 12A/13A were withdrawn, 12A/13A reappeared on a different route in competition with Liverbus 212.

Main differences from the 12/13 was the 12A/13A went via Town Row, Leyfield Road & Yew Tree Lane in West Derby, & not via Melwood Drive.

[teenagewasteland]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)
The Arriva takeover of MTL was the saviour of Arriva's Bootle depot. Until this time, Arriva were struggling in their traditional power base of north Merseyside, a legacy of Ribble's domination of the area, because they'd lost so much ground to MTL expansion, particularly in Crosby. Bootle depot had got to a point in the late 1990s were there was no evening or Sunday operation of any of their established services. When Arriva changed services and fleet allocations in April 2000, it gave Bootle back their foothold of local bus services that had been lacking since dereg, the previous regime had been one of retraction.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva network following takeover of MTL (April 2000)

(25/08/2020 06:38)St Helens Rider Wrote:  The 10/10A were jointly operated between Green Lane and St Helens. In the latter years of MTL it was split (10 - St Helens, 10A - Green Lane). Think it was around April 2000 that it was altered so that all work was done by St Helens. This was the time when all extensions were withdrawn and the routes were simplified to just be Liverpool - St Helens.

The MTL 10 had quite interesting changes in the 90s, core route was still Liverpool-St Helens, but first extended to Ashton, then to Bolton, operated as a through route but showed 582 between Bolton & Leigh, before being rerouted & changed to Manchester via Hindley, Westhoughton, Bolton & Swinton, then cut back to Ashton

Full details, including some timetables are available from this great site.
https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetable...ol/n-5fx44

Also
https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetable...ns/n-6B2CG