Diamond Bus North West

[WhiteVanMan]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(14/01/2021 21:40)Barney Wrote:  For the past year, UK bus companies have been bailed out by the tax payer to the tune of hundreds of millions. If they truly wanted to be commercially independent, all of them would have ceased trading by now.

So you would be happy, if every bus company went out of business?

A number of smaller bus/coach companies, have already gone out of business!

[Mayneway]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(16/01/2021 00:00)WhiteVanMan Wrote:  So you would be happy, if every bus company went out of business?

A number of smaller bus/coach companies, have already gone out of business!

The comment Barney has made is actually inaqurate. The government has only been offering subsidies for the last 4-5 months. The financial help has actually been to encourage companies to run services at precovid levels and in some cases more frequent than pre-covid to aid social distancing.

[Mayneway]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(15/01/2021 09:50)Barney Wrote:  Whatever the reason for these huge bailouts, the bald fact is that they exist and bus operators would cease to trade without them. Outside of London, most services are running at less than 60% than normal loadings and in some cases far lower than that.

I don’t disagree but your use of the word ‘bailout’ is slightly extreme.
Let’s clarify something.
At the start of the pandemic in March we were told to stay at home and not use public transport. Passenger numbers started to drop dramatically and pretty much every operator reduced service levels. Stagecoach Manchester as an example sorn and unlicensed around 65% of its fleet. Some smaller companies suspended all services and mothballed the businesses until better times. Then at end of the first lockdown we were all told to return to work, dine out for less etc etc only bus operators weren’t as keen to increase service levels so the government or more procisley the DFT offered subsidies to operators who ran commercial services at pre-covid frequencies in a bid to get the country moving again.
I’m sure had the money not been offered some smaller companies may have ceased trading but the big boys would simply run at such a reduced level that you keep your head above water. Your unneeded staff are furloughed and you claim grants like every other business for loss of earnings to cover expenditure.
I as plenty of coach operators asking for bailouts but I didn’t see many bus companies.

[Mrboo]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(15/01/2021 10:23)Barney Wrote:  The issues of the future of bus operation in GM and bailouts is not confined to DBNW alone and perhaps should be on a separate thread.

I don't understand your comment "paying them less as currently on paper they are losing money, So the value is lower."

As I understand it, there is no intention of taking back ownership of the assets (vehicles and depots). Rather, the franchising system would work as it does in London with TfGM responsible for strategic planning, awarding routes, setting fare structures, livery and overseeing the network etc. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As they will look at the profits of the company and how much each route makes that not on tender as any profit off a tender could be removed if they did not get the tender. we are now looking at 1 year of low numbers if they look at the Avg of last 5 years or since ownership. On paper DNW is worth less then 12 months ago. I had a friend who had a C.P on his nightclub they looked at his books and as he was silly with his paperwork. Got less then he would of done if he accounted for in`s and out`s better

[Mrboo]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(16/01/2021 01:56)Mayneway Wrote:  I don’t disagree but your use of the word ‘bailout’ is slightly extreme.
Let’s clarify something.
At the start of the pandemic in March we were told to stay at home and not use public transport. Passenger numbers started to drop dramatically and pretty much every operator reduced service levels. Stagecoach Manchester as an example sorn and unlicensed around 65% of its fleet. Some smaller companies suspended all services and mothballed the businesses until better times. Then at end of the first lockdown we were all told to return to work, dine out for less etc etc only bus operators weren’t as keen to increase service levels so the government or more procisley the DFT offered subsidies to operators who ran commercial services at pre-covid frequencies in a bid to get the country moving again.
I’m sure had the money not been offered some smaller companies may have ceased trading but the big boys would simply run at such a reduced level that you keep your head above water. Your unneeded staff are furloughed and you claim grants like every other business for loss of earnings to cover expenditure.
I as plenty of coach operators asking for bailouts but I didn’t see many bus companies.

you can also say what about there insurance for loss of earning.

[Barney]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(16/01/2021 07:30)Mrboo Wrote:  As they will look at the profits of the company and how much each route makes that not on tender as any profit off a tender could be removed if they did not get the tender. we are now looking at 1 year of low numbers if they look at the Avg of last 5 years or since ownership. On paper DNW is worth less then 12 months ago. I had a friend who had a C.P on his nightclub they looked at his books and as he was silly with his paperwork. Got less then he would of done if he accounted for in`s and out`s better

As I understand it, the entire route network, fares, frequencies and vehicle type would be determined by TfGM as currently happens in London. Bus operators would be invited to tender for specific routes or bundles of routes and it would be then up to TfGM to award these contracts. In most cases - though not all - the contract would most likely be awarded to the operator with the lowest tender for financial support.

This franchising system has been adopted successfully in many parts of the world.

As for your friend who was "silly with his paperwork", did he not realise that the first legal requirement of running a business is to keep detailed, accurate accounts and that they need to be submitted to HMRC annually? Anyone on this site who runs a business (bus or otherwise) will confirm this to be the case.

[Liamkennedy2231]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(16/01/2021 12:24)Barney Wrote:  As for your friend who was "silly with his paperwork", did he not realise that the first legal requirement of running a business is to keep detailed, accurate accounts and that they need to be submitted to HMRC annually? Anyone on this site who runs a business (bus or otherwise) will confirm this to be the case.

My thoughts exactly

[Barney]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(16/01/2021 01:38)Mayneway Wrote:  The comment Barney has made is actually inaqurate. The government has only been offering subsidies for the last 4-5 months. The financial help has actually been to encourage companies to run services at precovid levels and in some cases more frequent than pre-covid to aid social distancing.

According to an official press release on the Government's Gov.UK site the Covid-19 BSSG was announced on 3rd April 2020. The initial funding was provided: "to maintain services up to 50% of pre-Covid levels".

Since April, this grant/bailout has been renewed several times and is now reviewed on a monthly basis.

These are exceptional times but, I repeat, most if not all bus operators would have ceased trading without state (taxpayer) financial support.

[Mayneway]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(16/01/2021 22:55)Barney Wrote:  According to an official press release on the Government's Gov.UK site the Covid-19 BSSG was announced on 3rd April 2020. The initial funding was provided: "to maintain services up to 50% of pre-Covid levels".

Since April, this grant/bailout has been renewed several times and is now reviewed on a monthly basis.

These are exceptional times but, I repeat, most if not all bus operators would have ceased trading without state (taxpayer) financial support.

You must lend me your crystal ball sometime Barney.

[Barney]

RE: Diamond Bus North West

(17/01/2021 01:22)Mayneway Wrote:  You must lend me your crystal ball sometime Barney.

You don't need to be a clairvoyant to see into the past. A simple internet search will enable you to ascertain facts - as well as opinions - on a whole range of matters.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/almos...es-running

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/covi...20481.html