Wrightbus

[Busser]

RE: Wrightbus
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisbell5.../lightbox/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisbell5.../lightbox/

Personally I like the new look for the Gemini 3/StreetDeck

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Wrightbus
Wrightbus: Job losses confirmed as firm enters administration

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49818156

[gilesbus1]

RE: Wrightbus
Devastating news. However the product range is part of what is to blame, and the fact major customers such as Lothian, have essentially turned there back on them and gone to ADL.

The Streetlite has been the real let down it wasn't what operators wanted and has reliability and style issues. Really if any hope is there of saving the company the best option for them would be probably to either sell out to Volvo Bus or VDL and start to built products in combination with them, the Streetlite can never be a success and chassis building there is a disaster.

They do have some orders as follows that are outstanding from Kowloon Motor Bus, Citybus/New World First Bus, Diamond Bus North West, Preston Bus and First Leeds and First Eastern Counties. Presume whats there isn't enough to continue, note that all those orders are for deckers, nothing for Streetlites. Another failure was the SRM built to New Routemaster design on Volvo B5LH chassis, very few of these have been sold and none beyond London despite it supposedly being sold as a rival to the ADL Enviro400 City. I doubt any more than 10 of them have been made. The loss of the New Routemaster following election of the Labour Mayor of London also hasn't helped. Another thing not helping is the collapse of FirstGroup which at one stage were ordering about 80% of production and the loss of orders at National Express to an ADL exclusive deal, the restructuring of Arriva, and the failure to explore potential markets in Europe, the USA and Australasia which are a;ll starting to look at double-deckers for mass transit, the loss of orders from Singapore to ADL and the slowness in developing electric models, all this has had an effect.

[TheShire]

Wrightbus goes into administration
Oh dear

https://www.theguardian.com/business/201...rn-ireland

[mikestone]

RE: Wrightbus goes into administration
BBC report appears to indicate is being closed down rather than being run by the administrators.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Wrightbus

(25/09/2019 12:45)gilesbus1 Wrote:  The Streetlite has been the real let down it wasn't what operators wanted and has reliability and style issues.

I haven't heard any operators complaining about the StreetLite's style

(25/09/2019 12:45)gilesbus1 Wrote:  The loss of the New Routemaster following election of the Labour Mayor of London also hasn't helped.

Sadiq Khan isn't to blame whatsoever - the order for 1,000 vehicles was honoured and then the choice was made not to order any more. Why have a Ferrari when you can have a Ford Focus to do the job instead?

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Wrightbus
I assume this will result in problems getting Parts for Wright Buses? Hopefully a buyer can be found as i remember only 15 Years ago when almost every Bus i saw was built by Wright.

[redstar]

RE: Wrightbus
The development of the nearby Church didn't help. Losses last year were over £1 million, so not a big deal, losses this year were a bit more substantial.

What is rarely mentioned is the the National Transport Authority/ Transport for Ireland had substantial orders with Wrights over recent times with buses going to Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead and Bus Éireann. Build quality has been variable and a long way removed from what was delivered to Lothian and even First Bus in the past. I still think that the X43 Manchester to Burnley had the best buses I had travelled on in these Islands. Unfortunately the current Dublin Bus Fleet has over 800 Geminis so I find it hard to avoid them. The NTA have recently put out a tender for 600 buses over 3 years, that would have been useful for Wrights.

[knutstransport]

RE: Wrightbus

(25/09/2019 19:06)Y474 KNF Wrote:  Sadiq Khan isn't to blame whatsoever - the order for 1,000 vehicles was honoured and then the choice was made not to order any more. Why have a Ferrari when you can have a Ford Focus to do the job instead?

Indeed. It could be also be argued they were lucky to even get a 'new style Routemaster' contract in the first place. Boris had a politically motivated agenda to replace bendy buses claiming they were a danger to cyclists, yet there was a lack of evidence that bendy buses were a danger and if the concerns were genuine on some routes it didn't justify a blanket ban of bendy buses in London.

As an aside someone I work with was at an event Boris Johnson attended. He saw Boris get out of a taxi around the corner, he unloaded a bike from the taxi, put on a cycle helmet and cycled 200 yards to give the impression he was a keen cyclist.

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Wrightbus
Apologies for the length of this post and tried not to go off to much on it. This is a shame that Wrightbus is in a bad situation at the moment but some of this has been a combination of it being a taking it’s eye of the ball, being complacent, not really having as good a product range as it used to have and losing out to Alexander Dennis mainly in key markets.

One thing which is strange to me is why Wright and VDL went their separate ways. They had steady orders with a Arriva for the Pulsar and Gemini 2 and attracted a few orders of these products with other operators including First and a fair few independents. For some reason VDL didn’t want to work with external bodybuilders like Wright any more so this probably has lost Wright a fair few Arriva orders which switched to Alexander Dennis, for example the Enviro 400’s for Merseyside which might have been Gemini’s if they’d have been available.

In addition to this Wright seems to have but it’s eggs all in one basket by pitching in either with integrals like the Streetlite and Streetdeck, the New Bus for London/New Routemaster or with Volvo. Similarly Wright like with VDL has cut ties with the likes of Scania, Mercedes Benz and Alexander Dennis (Dennis) etc. which I feel has limited their options in being able to offer products to customers/the market. This might not have been entirely their choice but I’m sure continuing a relationship with say Scania might’ve been a option for Wright in hindsight. There’s also been opportunities for Wright in this period too with Optare likewise almost going into receivership too which Wright could’ve had added it’s portfolio – specifically the Solo, quite easily. Instead it was Alexander Dennis who was interested but lost out to Ashok Leyland in the long run.

With the exception of the Volvo products non of Wright’s current products seem to me to have been successful or as good quality as the previous generation products To me they seem to generally have questionable build quality, poor reliability and for my opinion seem a step back in the terms of design and user friendliness compared to say what Wright was doing with the previous generation Solar/Eclipse, Eclipse Gemini, Renown and even for that matter Commander/Pulsar. For example look at the build quality of the ‘Stealth’ Eclipse 3’s running all over the UK and for buses which are approximately 3 to less than a year old you’ll find loose fittings, damaged panels (i.e. holes etc.) due to what I feel is them being built with poor quality cheep materials and not vandalism (i.e. roof’s, staircase panels badly damaged etc.). Just look at how many Eclipse 3’s in London have had patch up jobs throughout their interiors for almost fairly new vehicles compared to the previous Eclipse Gemini/Gemini 2’s then you’ll get my gist.

In the terms of full size saloon’s Wright doesn’t really have a product comparable to the Eclipse/Volvo B7RLE and Solar/Scania either. To be fair both Volvo and Scania aren’t really taking the full size single deck market seriously either but the Streetlite certainly isn’t robust enough to stretch into the 12m market compared to say the Eclipse/Solar. Also operators seem to have reverted back to double decker’s rather than full size saloons for requirements over the last decade or so – perhaps rightly so too.

I fully agree with the other poster’s that the Streetlite as said hasn’t been good. Although not perfect the Pulsar seemed a better lightweight intermediate alternative. The comparable Enviro 200 NMC again although not perfect/bulletproof also seems a better overall option for single deck operation. The Streetlite design doesn’t seem user friendly with poorly laid out interiors, narrow doorways etc. generally it feels dated, the integral’s don’t seem to work too well/unreliable/create a hot claustrophobic interior in summer/hot periods and doesn’t feel like a product which should be a progression from the likes of the Cadet, Dart, Pulsar etc. I can’t comment on whether the operators have had issues with Streetlite’s but from what I’ve seen on this forum Arriva’s small batch at Laird Street don’t seem to have been successful or reliable and generally don’t seem popular with drivers and passengers either. First and to a lesser extent Rotala and Go Ahead seem to have been the only real major customers for it and with First’s bus operations downsized/divested the new owners may not buy the Streetlite in future or from Wright in general.

Can’t really comment on the Streetdeck as the only ones I’ve really used was the demo Arriva/Stagecoach had on Merseyside in 2015/16 and a few for First South Yorkshire, generally seemed okay-ish and not that different from the Gemini 3 but as said previously Wright’s build quality on the Gemini 3’s seems to have slipped quite a lot and the Enviro 400 NMC again not perfect seems lightyears ahead of the Streetdeck/Eclipse 3 in the terms of design/layout, user friendliness, passenger appeal and build quality. Even MCV’s Evoseti’s seem to have made significant inroads into the Wright/Volvo customer base with the likes of East Yorkshire, Go Ahead London, Metroline and Tower Transit placing significant orders for it. Although a bit foursquare the MCV does the job and haven’t really round any significant issues with build quality on them either. Again it’s interesting Wright went the integral route with the Streetdeck, hasn’t been a rip-roaring success sales wise either and interesting that the similarly spec’d Optare Metrodecker didn’t really attract many orders initially until it’s hybrid and electric revisions fairly recently too. Whether Wright’s Electric and Hydrogen decker’s would (or would have) changed this situation sales wise is unknown but it’s been the Volvo option which has been keeping it afloat recently and realistically this is what the company should have concentrated on in the short term at least.

However what I feel is/was the main/major reason Wright have taken taken their eye of the ball recently has been the distraction of the orders for New Bus for London/New Routemaster. Won’t lie I’m not a fan of the ‘Boris Bus’ as I think it was an unnecessary waste of time, resources and expenditure which ballooned way beyond what it should have done to deliver a product I feel is a massive retrograde step behind the low floor double decker’s of the previous generation they replaced. They’re cramped, poorly lit, badly laid out (for example where’s the hand pole for the middle staircase?), before the retrofitted opening windows they were beyond health and safety hot in summer, freezing in winter, have had poor reliability and very questionable credentials regarding their green and environmental friendliness. Didn’t a independent test on Oxford Street find a ALX400/Dennis Trident was omitting less pollution and Co2 than a New Routemaster? Non of the London Bus operators really wanted the New Routemaster and their cost over-runs, the fact TfL owns (leases) these vehicles not the bus operators, the deletion of all the original features/open platform/conductors for having them in the first place which essentially make them no different from normal double decker’s and issues with them in service has loaded a massive debt on TfL which has seen bus services cut – sometimes quite drastically and cost both public transport schemes in London and the rest of the UK funding which has been denied and removed in these so called austere times which has seen services across the country slashed and removed yet funding for a vanity project for/on a political whim which was unnecessary provided. Let’s be honest neither Boris Johnson, Thomas Heatherwick or many others involved in this project had actual experience of automotive design, public transport requirements nor what a bus passenger really wants which is a reliable high frequency service with clean decent vehicles instead of gimmicky fripperies which I certainly feel don’t offer this to the end user. I actually preferred the Merc Citaro bendies they replaced over them if I’m being honest.

Wright’s naturally snatched TfL’s arm off for the New Routemaster order and should’ve been a success both for them and TfL. TfL’s media spin has tried to talk these up to the hilt but as I’ve mentioned they’re not popular with operators, drivers and passengers and my experience of using them is a fairly negative one. If it was a choice between a New Routemaster or a Enviro400, Gemini or even a President/ALX400 I’d pick the other types over them any day. The rear platform /conductor concept can work in fact the MAN’s in Berlin incorporate some of this quite well and if a modern style design which was a evolution from say Wright’s Gemini’s etc. it would have delivered this much better instead of the dewy eyed nostalgia of the New Routemaster with say brighter more user friendly interiors/layouts and perhaps working out some of the problems with the design and reliability by working with other manufacturers like Volvo, Scania etc. than doing it all integrally. With this taking the bulk of contract renewals for a significant proportion of London routes over the last 7 or so years and likely to remain for at least another 5-7 years London bus operator orders for say Gemini/Volvo deckers which might have been placed and replaced over 5-7 year periods have dropped off. Also with TfL trying to put forward clones for the New Routemaster like the Wright SRM or Enviro 400 City the traditional market for deckers has dropped a bit which has been compounded by probable lead times increasing at Wright’s due to New Routemaster’s possibly taking up more and more production time/resources, the product range changing and beyond the Volvo option not really finding favour with operators, uncertainty in the industry surrounding the future of major customers like First and to a lesser extent Arriva and/or Alexander Dennis having a fair bit of success taking advantage of this and winning orders for the Enviro400 and Enviro400 NMC/City which generally offers what operators want and what they can utilise in the long term outside of London operation too. The SRM has also failed with London operators either continuing with the non-London types like the Gemini 3/Enviro 400 NMC or going for the City Enviro option for something which looks a bit like a ‘Routemaster’ but has all the benefits of a normal double decker.

Again when Wright returned with the Gemini 3/Streetdeck/Stealth designs they incorporated some New Routemaster design into them and I feel this hasn’t really worked and is a bit of a backward step compared to the Gemini 2’s they replaced. Those porthole upper deck windows and the design/layout of them just again feels a retrograde step compared to the previous generation products and perhaps Alexander Dennis has taken advantage of that and stolen customers from Wright accordingly. Even the East Lancs low floors from almost 20 years ago seem as well built/designed as these and in fact I sort of prefer them. Again as I’ve mentioned previously their build quality seems poor compared to previous Gemini 2’s and along with much of what I’ve mentioned like focusing too much on New Routemaster/SRM, no massive orders for the Streetdeck, loss of previous orders and customers like First, Arriva, National Express and Alexander Dennis, MCV and Optare nibbling significantly into their customer base things don’t seem as successful for Wright generally in the decker sector as it did say a decade or so ago. Even decker orders outside of London has been mainly going to Alexander Dennis rather than Wright too and Stagecoach don’t really favour Wright for any of their requirements either.

Can’t say if Wright have taken their customers for granted or not (probably not) as it’s not like it suddenly lost orders and some things like First’s situation, Arriva’s future and Nat Ex signing a long term deal with Alexander Dennis were nothing it could really influence. It’s still had fairly significant orders from London operators up to this last year or so and did build up significant business in Hong Kong, Singapore, the Far East and South America so clearly has the product range and experience to be successful. Whether it can by being taken over by an outside partner like JCB/Ryse Hydrogen who’ve been mooted or someone within the industry like BYD, Wechai/BCI or even in order to save jobs/business by the likes of Volvo, Alexander Dennis or even Optare/Ashok Leyland isn’t clear? It seems unlikely that BYD given their links to Alexander Dennis would enter into this arrangement and if Wright’s does crash surely Alexander Dennis and Optare wouldn’t bother picking up the pieces when they can simply take up the slack of the market anyway?

I do feel generally Wright is something worth saving especially as up until recently they were one of the market leaders. In my opinion it simply needs to regroup and re-discover and re-do what it does best without the distraction’s they’ve had over the last few years. What it also needs to do is up it’s game in the terms of build and product quality and build new relationships with operators generally beyond FirstGroup as they’re probably on their way out and whoever replaces them may be the way forward for them. If it means building things different to it’s past products or the current ‘Stealth’ range and giving what customers want then so be it.

To be fair I probably don’t know all the issues and solutions here and it’s easy to criticise when you’re an outsider to it all too.

It would be a massive shame for Wright’s and Ballymena generally if they crash but likewise it was for Wigan and Blackburn when Northern Counties (Plaxton Wigan) and East Lancs disappeared from the market a decade or so earlier too, mainly due to the success of Wright in the double deck market. Leyland and MCW are mere names in history now despite the proud past’s they’ve had in the bus building industry so Wright’s could end up the same way sadly.