Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(24/08/2018 21:33)T42 PVM Wrote:  If its correct that the 82 is getting withdrawn instead of being moved to Winsford this would mean no extra Buses would be needed than what is currently there.

Is the 82 currently operated commercially or on a tender? If it's commercially maybe Arriva will still be interested if they can get a subsidy but then if it goes out to tender maybe other operators like Aintree Coachline, D&G, Stagecoach, Howards and Arrowebrook could be interested?

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot
Am sure its commercial but the Buses from the 82 are going onto the extended X4 so dont think Arriva will be interested

[iMarkeh]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot
It has now apparently been sent out to tender. It certainly looks viable but Arriva have the issues with breaks in Northwich (where drivers can't class it as a break as all breaks must be taken at the depot), the shunt cars and the fact drivers are paid more than other companies. Stagecoach could run this to their advantage as they pay drivers less and breaks can be taken at the bus station (and duties can link onto every other route unlike Arriva who currently only have 82s and Blacons on the rota). Howards could have a good chance too but they are like Arriva in that they want routes to make a lot of money (as proven in the CEC changes where Howards lost all routes and gained none).

Helms won't take it as they are full with their deckers. D&G has no deckers. Arrowebrook aren't a big fan of service work.

(10/09/2018 15:35)T42 PVM Wrote:  Am sure its commercial but the Buses from the 82 are going onto the extended X4 so dont think Arriva will be interested

I wouldn't be so sure. Any company will run anything if they get paid enough. The X4 is 3 extra buses as well. The 82 only has 2 buses.

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 16:11)iMarkeh Wrote:  It has now apparently been sent out to tender. It certainly looks viable but Arriva have the issues with breaks in Northwich (where drivers can't class it as a break as all breaks must be taken at the depot), the shunt cars and the fact drivers are paid more than other companies. Stagecoach could run this to their advantage as they pay drivers less and breaks can be taken at the bus station (and duties can link onto every other route unlike Arriva who currently only have 82s and Blacons on the rota). Howards could have a good chance too but they are like Arriva in that they want routes to make a lot of money (as proven in the CEC changes where Howards lost all routes and gained none).

Helms won't take it as they are full with their deckers. D&G has no deckers. Arrowebrook aren't a big fan of service work.

Don't Arriva only use one decker on the 82 currently? I'm sure any operator can get hold of one decker if needed but maybe they could add in an extra journey here and there to eliminate the need for a decker.

Not sure about your analysis of Howards. The 200 contract was withdrawn and the 27, 88 and 289 were merged in to a single contract and D&G (who had been running the 88) offered the lowest price for running it and apparently that was the only contract Howards bid on.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 16:23)knutstransport Wrote:  Don't Arriva only use one decker on the 82 currently? I'm sure any operator can get hold of one decker if needed but maybe they could add in an extra journey here and there to eliminate the need for a decker.

Not sure about your analysis of Howards. The 200 contract was withdrawn and the 27, 88 and 289 were merged in to a single contract and D&G (who had been running the 88) offered the lowest price for running it and apparently that was the only contract Howards bid on.

Arriva do use 1 decker. I suppose you could use 2 buses but that would up the tender cost quite a bit (given D&G Wincham don't have any between school routes)

I get your point about Howards but generally, they are after more for their buses. Howards don't have many services. If they went in low for tenders, they would have a lot of routes. Look at Stagecoach, D&G and MCT compared to Howards and Arriva. The number of tendered routes is very different. The more you want for routes, the less you win.

[Bevan Price]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 16:11)iMarkeh Wrote:  It has now apparently been sent out to tender. It certainly looks viable but Arriva have the issues with breaks in Northwich (where drivers can't class it as a break as all breaks must be taken at the depot), the shunt cars and the fact drivers are paid more than other companies. Stagecoach could run this to their advantage as they pay drivers less and breaks can be taken at the bus station (and duties can link onto every other route unlike Arriva who currently only have 82s and Blacons on the rota). Howards could have a good chance too but they are like Arriva in that they want routes to make a lot of money (as proven in the CEC changes where Howards lost all routes and gained none).

Helms won't take it as they are full with their deckers. D&G has no deckers. Arrowebrook aren't a big fan of service work.


I wouldn't be so sure. Any company will run anything if they get paid enough. The X4 is 3 extra buses as well. The 82 only has 2 buses.

Might Warrington be interested in the 82, with inter-working with its own Cheshire Cat services ? On the occasions I have used the 82, it does not really need double deckers. Something the size of an Enviro 200 would be adeuate for most journeys.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 19:13)Bevan Price Wrote:  Might Warrington be interested in the 82, with inter-working with its own Cheshire Cat services ? On the occasions I have used the 82, it does not really need double deckers. Something the size of an Enviro 200 would be adeuate for most journeys.

I highly doubt that. Imagine that journey if a bus breaks in Chester. That is a very long way to start recovering services. Though interworking would work, I think it may be too far even for Warrington.

Most trips don't need a decker. Just the 2 school runs. The 82 used to be busy. I don't know if Arriva have ran it down somehow but it used to be quite a bit busier. I remember seeing a full decker on it around 2pm from Chester

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 23:22)iMarkeh Wrote:  I highly doubt that. Imagine that journey if a bus breaks in Chester. That is a very long way to start recovering services. Though interworking would work, I think it may be too far even for Warrington.

Most trips don't need a decker. Just the 2 school runs. The 82 used to be busy. I don't know if Arriva have ran it down somehow but it used to be quite a bit busier. I remember seeing a full decker on it around 2pm from Chester

GHA used to operate a mainly half-hourly service, so it might be the lower frequency makes it less attractive. GHA also seemed to make out Tarvin-Chester was a significant flow when Routemaster started a C84 to replace withdrawn Arriva journeys so maybe if there were a lot of Tarvin passengers on a 2pm 82 service they now travel on the 14:07 84 service?

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 19:13)Bevan Price Wrote:  Might Warrington be interested in the 82, with inter-working with its own Cheshire Cat services ? On the occasions I have used the 82, it does not really need double deckers. Something the size of an Enviro 200 would be adeuate for most journeys.

Warrington don't have a record of offering low costs for tendered services. They did used to do quite well at picking up village contracts in Cheshire by submitting a bid which would incorporate the requirement in to a through Warrington service e.g. Northwich to Lach Dennis as an extension of a Warrington-Northwich service, which presumably won on quality scoring rather than pricing.

[dca529x]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 17:58)iMarkeh Wrote:  Arriva do use 1 decker. I suppose you could use 2 buses but that would up the tender cost quite a bit (given D&G Wincham don't have any between school routes)

I get your point about Howards but generally, they are after more for their buses. Howards don't have many services. If they went in low for tenders, they would have a lot of routes. Look at Stagecoach, D&G and MCT compared to Howards and Arriva. The number of tendered routes is very different. The more you want for routes, the less you win.

The comments re Howards are I think a little unfair. They are a business and have to make a profit, but they do/did provide a quality service which is a step up from most in the CEC area. CEC has demonstrated quite graphically it's spectacular disinterest in bus service provision and nothing will change there. The lowest cost/absolute minimum service will win out.