Size of Blackpool and Fylde fleets at takeover

[robertclark125]

Size of Blackpool and Fylde fleets at takeover
Firstly, Moderators, change the title of this thread if you think another title is better.

People may not realise that Fylde was the only council operator post deregulation to be privatised and later return to council ownership. This occurred when it was sold to its employees in 1993, and was then sold by them to Blackpool Transport in 1994.

But, what were the sizes of the Blackpool Transport and Fylde Blue Buses fleets at the takeover by Blackpool, in 1994?

Also, prior to the 1993 sale, Blue buses and Blackpool Transport had been involved in some skirmishes. I wonder if, had the skirmishes continued, without a BT takeover, could the following scenarios have happened.

1 - The battle leads to one of the two operators collapsing, and the other thus replaces the failed operator.

2 - The battle leads to both operators concentrating that much on each others destruction, that it opens the door for Stagecoach Ribble to come in, and they end up the dominant force in the area, with the surviving town firm being a minor player.

3 - Both firms go bust, opening the door for Stagecoach Ribble to take over the whole Fylde coast.

And perhaps someone from Blackpool or Lytham St. Annes can tell me, how bitter was the skirmish, and, how extensive was the Fylde network in Lytham St. Annes, and Saltcoates, including route 11 to Blackpool, compareds to the BT network in the area nowadays?

[Paul_Turner]

RE: Size of Blackpool and Fylde fleets at takeover

(19/09/2017 20:33)robertclark125 Wrote:  Firstly, Moderators, change the title of this thread if you think another title is better.

People may not realise that Fylde was the only council operator post deregulation to be privatised and later return to council ownership. This occurred when it was sold to its employees in 1993, and was then sold by them to Blackpool Transport in 1994.

But, what were the sizes of the Blackpool Transport and Fylde Blue Buses fleets at the takeover by Blackpool, in 1994?

Also, prior to the 1993 sale, Blue buses and Blackpool Transport had been involved in some skirmishes. I wonder if, had the skirmishes continued, without a BT takeover, could the following scenarios have happened.

1 - The battle leads to one of the two operators collapsing, and the other thus replaces the failed operator.

2 - The battle leads to both operators concentrating that much on each others destruction, that it opens the door for Stagecoach Ribble to come in, and they end up the dominant force in the area, with the surviving town firm being a minor player.

3 - Both firms go bust, opening the door for Stagecoach Ribble to take over the whole Fylde coast.

And perhaps someone from Blackpool or Lytham St. Annes can tell me, how bitter was the skirmish, and, how extensive was the Fylde network in Lytham St. Annes, and Saltcoates, including route 11 to Blackpool, compareds to the BT network in the area nowadays?

Sorry only just spotted this:

In 1994 BTS had a bus fleet of 126 buses (63 DD, 28 SD, 35 Midi) (not too different from its current fleet size!)
Fylde Transport had a fleet of 89 buses (48 DD, 8 SD, 21 Midi 12 coach)

There wasn't much in the way of skirmishes between 1989 and 1994, most of the aggresive competition ended during 1989. The only significant change was when BTS restarted a service on Park Road to Mereside (the 4) in September 1992, but that ended up withdrawn in April 1993. Fylde responded with extra buses on the 44 on Whitegate Drive and 33 on Park Road.

Overlaps. The main Fylde services were 11/11A Lytham to Cleveleys. The 11A was matched by BTS 12 from St. Annes to Cleveleys while the 11 covered parts of BTS 7/7A, 12, 22/22A. Other commercial work was the 33 and 44A/B minibuses from Cleveleys to Mereside (via different routes) which today is largely part of the 3 and 4 routes. These covered areas from which BTS withdraw, either before or after Fylde's incursions such as Norbreck, Park Road, Penrose Avenue and Great Marton. There's a bit of that history here: http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/b...arton.html and here: http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/f...k-and.html

There was also competition on the Promenade from 1987 to 1994 - http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/p...at-30.html

Both operators co-ordinated on the 11C service. http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/f...to-17.html

The rest of Fylde's network was the 77 St. Annes Roamer and 193 Spring Gardens to Wesham which both now form part of Coastal Coaches, some tenders (eg 154/8 to Preston E/Su) and lots of schools which are now mostly in independent hands

In theory those scenarios could have happened. BTS had prepared registrations for the Fylde network in 1993 when the sale process had started and Fylde had some retaliatory measures lined up but when it was clear that sale was not on the open market these didn't progress, BTS reporting at the time that they felt a risk that Fylde could fall to a bigger group. Once it was clear that a deal could be done in 1994 then that seemed to remove the risk. That said, both operators had successfully emerged from competition - in 1987/8/9 - both remained profitable throughout over a period whcih saw both gain at Ribble's expense and the latter lost schools; works and tenders to the local providers. A process of retrenchment which continued until 2016.

Hope this is of interest - the full story will be published, one day!
Paul