GM Buses North

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RE: GM Buses North

(01/07/2012 01:17)jonesy3001 Wrote:  5201-10(C201-10-FVU) and 5310/11(D310/11-LNB or JVR) were new to tameside/glossop before the depot shut in 1991.

5206 to 10 where new to Oldham and 5310/11 to Stockport 5207 was re-engined with a garnder engine

[Polo Mint]

RE: GM Buses North
Didn't GM North also have depots in Rochdale, Wigan, Dukinfield (or nearby maybe Hyde) and the Leigh area?

Did GMBN ever have routes operated by multiple depots? If so it explains the mish mash of different vehicles on different routes.

I keep thinking of what GM buses would be like if they would never have been sold. To be honest though it was silly how they got split then sold, splitting north and south did nothing for competition. First monopolised in the north and Stagecoach in the south while Tameside only has competition which is really not that intense anyway. Market share may have been diluted, but then with smaller operating areas it would make both companies take more serious and less complacent action against new rivals. The authorities probably would have been better off selling Oldham to First then Rochdale to Stagecoach, then Bury to First then Bolton to Stagecoach and so on, as well as allocating some trunk routes (192, 135) to both north and south

[Bevan Price]

RE: GM Buses North

(09/12/2012 19:16)Polo Mint Wrote:  Didn't GM North also have depots in Rochdale, Wigan, Dukinfield (or nearby maybe Hyde) and the Leigh area?

Rather than duplicate what is already on the web, you will find some of the answers here:

http://www.selnec.org.uk/gm_buses_split.htm


Rochdale & Tameside depots had closed before the split into North & South areas. Tameside (on the edge of Dukinfield) was very short lived, and had been built to replace the Ashton & SHMD (Stalybridge) municipal depots.

Personally, I think it would be better if we still had the original municipal operators. Lumping small units into one large organisation often seems to reduce efficiency and lead to higher operating costs. In my opinion, local managers are often better acquainted with local needs than some remote boss in SELNEC HQ, Aberdeen, Sunderland or Perth, etc.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: GM Buses North
I think now is the first time that some kind of competition has happened between First and Stagecoach since the split with the cross city route 50 from Stagecoach and 18 from First along with the Stagecoach takeover of First Wigan.

[gilesbus1]

RE: GM Buses North

(09/12/2012 23:26)St Helens Rider Wrote:  I think now is the first time that some kind of competition has happened between First and Stagecoach since the split with the cross city route 50 from Stagecoach and 18 from First along with the Stagecoach takeover of First Wigan.

I think there has been one or two minor scurmishes before, lets not forget Stagecoach had adepot in Chadderton for a while from when it bought out Universal which is in First Manchester's area plus it also got routes from Hyde Road Depot to Oldham and Rochdale which although not identical to First routes would have had duplicating sections of road. Similarly First moved into Tameside with the take-over of PMT and enlarged to some degree operations there. Also lets not forget Stagecoach Ribble once had a depot in Bolton and competed head on with GMN/First on some routes in the Bolton area prior to 2000, the 582 rings a bell as one route they competed on for a time.

What will be interesting to see will be when Stagecoach's nerwly acquired Wigan depot changes services later on wether they will register anything in the Leigh/Horwich Area's which will either directly or indirectly compete with First Manchester, or wether Bluebird's acquisition MMC/OFT dependent allows an escalation of competition between First and Stagecoach to the North East of Manchester as well potentially.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: GM Buses North
It is also highly possible Stagecoach may head towards Merseyside (to link up with operations out of Gillmoss at St Helens maybe) which would kind of recreate the GM Buses vs MTL battles of the 90's (although of course it would be Arriva vs Stagecoach this time).

[wirralbus]

RE: GM Buses North

(14/12/2012 20:14)St Helens Rider Wrote:  It is also highly possible Stagecoach may head towards Merseyside (to link up with operations out of Gillmoss at St Helens maybe) which would kind of recreate the GM Buses vs MTL battles of the 90's (although of course it would be Arriva vs Stagecoach this time).

If that was ever to happen again neither would be winners

[skelmersey]

RE: GM Buses North

(14/12/2012 23:05)wirralbus Wrote:  

(14/12/2012 20:14)St Helens Rider Wrote:  It is also highly possible Stagecoach may head towards Merseyside (to link up with operations out of Gillmoss at St Helens maybe) which would kind of recreate the GM Buses vs MTL battles of the 90's (although of course it would be Arriva vs Stagecoach this time).

If that was ever to happen again neither would be winners

Can't see this happening, I'm sure the agreement with First not to run into Skem still stands with Stagecoach as Arriva did a deal with the Kirkby routes with them. Incidently didnt one of Arriva's bosses say Skem depot's future was Knowsley? As we know Skem is now history, they ran competing routes after the OFT's 3year ban on Arriva competing with GTL there

[gilesbus1]

RE: GM Buses North
I think initially the growth at Wigan Depot is by attacking independent operators in Wigan and Leigh. Operators cannot sign anti competitive agreements with others so any agreement dating back to the bus wars previously is illegal. I suspect though Stagecoach will be looking for profitable growth within Wigan or close to Wigan rather than massively externally to. Most growth will come in Wigan and Leigh and perhaps Atherton as well, anything else that might come will be competitive with independents in St Helens on services to and from the Wigan area perhaps.

[Polo Mint]

RE: GM Buses North
I think in Wigan Stagecoach may want to enhance services in Leigh where there is a lack of any dominant operator. I can't imagine them starting any services to Bolton which would most certainly start a bus war.

Stagecoach seem to be doing better on the 50 than First is on the 18 mind you.

The one to watch is Moston in my opinion, JPT and Bluebird (soon to be Stagecoach, unless Stagey have already taken over as I haven't seen a Bluebird bus for weeks they are all Stagecoach Plaxtons 'on loan') compete heavily there. First seem to be the odd one out with the 81 which is consistently late due to road works in Oldham, then the 88/89 with an aged fleet. Interesting to see whether they can all co-exist.

(09/12/2012 22:50)Bevan Price Wrote:  

(09/12/2012 19:16)Polo Mint Wrote:  Didn't GM North also have depots in Rochdale, Wigan, Dukinfield (or nearby maybe Hyde) and the Leigh area?

Rather than duplicate what is already on the web, you will find some of the answers here:

http://www.selnec.org.uk/gm_buses_split.htm


Rochdale & Tameside depots had closed before the split into North & South areas. Tameside (on the edge of Dukinfield) was very short lived, and had been built to replace the Ashton & SHMD (Stalybridge) municipal depots.

Personally, I think it would be better if we still had the original municipal operators. Lumping small units into one large organisation often seems to reduce efficiency and lead to higher operating costs. In my opinion, local managers are often better acquainted with local needs than some remote boss in SELNEC HQ, Aberdeen, Sunderland or Perth, etc.

Thanks, that is a great website.