Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

[knutstransport]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

(22/09/2015 13:54)djb Wrote:  I think in a nutshell that is the point? Because knutsford has so many alternative towns closer/similar in time than a bus to warrington would be, it removes multiple potential passenger flows. Because of this the route would rely on multiple unique mid route passengers, which I doubt this route has (considering you probably need 10+ per journey, assuming they're all full fare payees!

If a bus operator ran a bus from Knutsford to Warrington with a £5 return fare (which is reasonable in comparison to current market rates) then a shopping trip to Warrington would be cheaper than one to Chester, Stockport or Manchester. Also one to Warrington would be something a bit different for people who do shopping trips by public transport, they may be getting a bit bored of other places.

Longer term Warrington is a large town which should have a number of job vacancies. If a bus started and continued running people in the Knutsford area without cars may start getting jobs in Warrington. However, as usual the government talks about getting more people in to work while local councils cancel subsided bus routes because they only consider them useful for shopping trips.

[wirralbus]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for
Its catch 22 when people do get work usually the first thing to happen is they learn to drive , meaning that its one less person using a bus , if that continually happens then hey presto there is no passengers for the bus service.

[knutstransport]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

(22/09/2015 15:46)wirralbus Wrote:  Its catch 22 when people do get work usually the first thing to happen is they learn to drive , meaning that its one less person using a bus , if that continually happens then hey presto there is no passengers for the bus service.

Despite living in Knutsford where apparently people are too rich to use the bus (based on claims in previous posts) I know many people who have driving licences but don't own cars or share a car with their partner meaning they can't both take it to work unless they work close to one another and start/finish at the same sort of times.

Getting a bus to Warrington could be faster than the car due to bus lanes in Warrington and also you don't have to worry about where the bus is going to park, so there could be benefits to using the bus even for people with access to a car.

[wirralbus]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

(23/09/2015 07:50)Dentonian Wrote:  You don't know much about domestic politics and economics, do you? Local Councils are cancelling subsidised services because thyere is no money in the budget. In this country, Osborne has alll the power and LA's have all the responsibilitity. People always blame the nearest, rather than think who is "guilty".

Do you think that the Government is effectively killing off Local Government so that everything in the way of funding comes from National Government funds.

[knutstransport]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

(23/09/2015 07:50)Dentonian Wrote:  You don't know much about domestic politics and economics, do you? Local Councils are cancelling subsidised services because thyere is no money in the budget. In this country, Osborne has alll the power and LA's have all the responsibilitity. People always blame the nearest, rather than think who is "guilty".

I know budgets have been reduced by central government but I also know local councils seem to have their favourite areas for spending the remaining budget. In Cheshire East the Crewe & Nantwich area seems to get new services if existing subsided ones get their subsidy reduced. For instance, the Nantwich to Wrexham service is a new subsided one albeit infrequent. In the Macclesfield area the 27 service and 130 Sunday and Bank Holiday service have gone commercial and no new subsided services have been introduced.

[knutstransport]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

(23/09/2015 19:28)Dentonian Wrote:  Driving Lessons 1986: £7 2015: £11 overall RPI: £22
Litre of Petrol 39.4p £1.08* £1.03
1.8 mile (e/w) return bus fare 52p £4.10 £1.38
Car parking ? FREE

Cost of petrol is just one of the costs involved in running a car. You also need insurance, tax, servicing, MOT and any routine repair work and probably Breakdown recovery. For younger/novice drivers insurance alone can cost more than buying a weekly bus ticket every week.

For driving lessons it's now recommended you take 2 hour lessons, whereas in the past it was recommended you take 1 hour lessons. A 2 hour lesson with the AA for my postcode area is £23.50. Then driving lessons isn't the full cost involved - there's the cost of the tests - both theory and practical and the cost of the licence, as well as the cost of obtaining photos for the licence. Most people don't pass the practical test the first time so have to pay the cost of the practical test at least twice and then if you don't own a car before passing your test you finish up having to pay the cost of a 1 hour driving lesson on top of the practical test cost so that you have the use of a car for it.

Car parking: FREE. Really? Some workplaces have a limited number of free parking spaces for employees but apparently there's some government regulations where newly built workplaces have to presume 50% of their employees will arrive by one of public transport, bike, walk or another employee's car. So if a developer applies to build an office block which could house 200 employees and they propose more than 100 parking spaces the application will get rejected. Some workplaces have no parking or if they do it's reserved for management and visitors only. While Greater Manchester has the luxury of free parking at most railway stations, that doesn't exist outside PTE areas except at very small stations with very limited parking.

I'm not sure why you've specifically quoted a 1.8 mile bus ride. Short bus rides are proportionally expensive and most people live more than 1.8 miles from their place of work. If there's a direct bus route with one operator you can easily pay £5 return for 10 or more miles each way. It's short journeys or where you have to change bus and operator that journeys are expensive, so more direct bus routes would make the bus more attractive.

[knutstransport]

RE: Services which don't exist but there could be demand for

(24/09/2015 11:08)Dentonian Wrote:  Insurance, tax, regular servicing and MOT are fixed costs. ie. you are paying them even when the car is sat on the drive and you are paying bus (or rail) fare. Economically, that actually ENcourages car use. Breakdown and tyre failure (the reason we had to use taxis on Sun, btw) are semi-variables. If a car is properly looked after, a breakdown would be a very rare event.

They're still charges you have to pay to own a car and some of them are partly variable. For instance, a service is required less frequently if you use the car less, tyres do need replacing before the tread gets below the minimum legal level etc. Most people won't breakdown but it doesn't mean breakdown cover is something you don't need.

In an earlier post wirralbus once people without cars get jobs they'll buy one and stop using the bus, in that instance you need to take every cost in to consideration, including the loss in value of the car as it gets older.

Quote:I've not heard of any regulations about limiting parking spaces per employee as such, but would think they are more to do with the land available than any laudible, but impossible to impose restrictions on travel mode.

I just asked the owner of a recently built office block in Cheshire East about this. They legally have to produce a 'Travel plan' which allows a maximum of 43% of employees to arrive on site in their own car. The Travel plan doesn't mean the other 57% have to arrive on foot, by bike or by public transport. The plan might be for 30% of employees to park on the outskirts of an urban area and get a Park & Ride bus, car share or walk from there. The aim is to reduce pollution and congestion in towns, so possibly it doesn't apply for out-of-town workplaces but does apply to workplaces in small market towns. However, what employees actually do is a different matter.