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RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - iMarkeh - 11/06/2019 12:41

(10/06/2019 18:01)mrd97 Wrote:  With the X8, it’s already had significant time out on since it begin, as has been mentioned. How much additional time does serving the zoo add? Because it’s becoming less of an express service with all the additional stops. I’d say Liverpool - Shore Drive, Magazine Lane, Allport Road, Bridle Road, M53, Ellesmere Port Bus Station, Stanney Lane, Cheshire Oaks, M53, Hoole Road and into the bus interchange (bypassing Chester Station). Does it really need to serve the zoo and Chester Station?
Before it went into the Zoo, it wasn't viable apparently. I do think the Zoo needs bypassing sometimes but it can be a really big money earner. It all depends on the timings. Does it need to serve the Zoo early morning or late evening? No. In the daytime though.... Probably yes. Chester Station is a huge stop for tourists to both Cheshire Oaks and the Zoo. The thing which takes up so much time serving Chester Station is the routing. If there was an easy way to turn around (by using the taxi rank for example) then it wouldn't be such a time penalty but having to go round The Bars roundabout can add a lot of time on.


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - iMarkeh - 11/06/2019 14:14

While the 2 does have some really good links, I think the money is now in the 1 because of the 2 going round the houses so much. Generally in and out of Liverpool it can be lightly loaded. Birkenhead it picks up but then from Birkenhead to Bebington, people can use the 38 so I am unsure why they want the 2 to stay Croft - Liverpool unless something is planned for the 38 to move it away from the area. From Chester - Ellesmere Port, the best thing they could do would be to bring back route 3.
Route 3 could run in 1 of a few forms.
1. Routed as the 2 to Overpool but then run through Rivacre (Rossmore Road West would be unserved)
2. Routed as a 2 to Ellesmere Port and then run as a 7 round Rivacre (this would leave Overpool Road and Rossmore Road West unserved though)
3. Routes literally as the 3 used to be via Princess Road (leaving part of Overpool Road and all of Rossmore Road West unserved)
With Mr Jones being at First for so long, could this be part of the plan as he will have worked at First when the 3 ran so might be wanting to bring that back.


The 22 is an interesting one. Could Stagecoach have also seen the demand from the old Avon 22 and is the 82 picking up from Greasby and Irby as that could also be a contributor to the decision. If the 22 does get re-routed, I wonder if the 80 and 82 will go back to the old routes which will give the 38 more layover time as every trip would run onto the circular having time before and after the trip.

If I were Merseytravel, I would withdraw the 38 extension funding and would be looking at bringing back the old 145/146 (one or the other on an hourly frequency. Also not serving Port Causeway & Dock Road and instead going round Bromborough) as well and stop the 38 being so long. For 1 extra bus, the catchment area is a lot higher and create faster journeys for people.


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - wirralbus - 11/06/2019 15:48

The extension of the 38 beyond Croft Retail Park is important as it gives links to areas of Bromborough and Eastham that lost a bus service when the 418 bit the dust.


I seriously think that Bromborough Pool , Acre Lane and Plymyard Avenue have to be done together as there is no other feasible way of doing it.

If you remember the consultation New Ferry to Mill Park was to be route 39 , it seems Stagecoach found a way of tagging it to the 38 in the end instead of being a stand alone route.


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - mrd97 - 11/06/2019 16:22

You could also have the 22 as it was with Avon, and perhaps Merseytravel could have a new 83 route which goes West Kirby - Arrowe Park (via Greasby). A return trip takes 42 minutes if the old 83 timetable is anything to go by, more than enough time to interwork with the 80. The 82 could then extend to Heswall as a stand-alone route, giving a half hourly link between Heswall and West Kirby again (as it was right up until Avon ceased trading). Unless I’m missing something this doesn’t increase the PVR from what is available now.

The 2 proposals are odd. I’ve not seen it mentioned anywhere else but as I say Eastham Councillor Phil Gilchrist stated the proposal was Liverpool - Croft. Seems odd to run this section as it is already covered by other services. How many are ran out of Chester’s depot? Could that play a part in the proposals? As it’s ran out of two depots currently I believe.

The 38 is far too long, again I apologise for going off topic but couldn’t they have just reduced the 418/419 to hourly? They were good services. The 145/146 Birkenhead - Mill Park to a combined hourly frequency sounds good too. However I don’t know if this would cost more to implement them what’s available now. However they do waste money with the Moreton circulars running until 11pm at night. 38 should be West Kirby - Croft via Sandbrook (if this diversion can be squeezed in)


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - L401CJF - 11/06/2019 17:00

(11/06/2019 16:22)mrd97 Wrote:  The 38 is far too long, again I apologise for going off topic but couldn’t they have just reduced the 418/419 to hourly? They were good services. The 145/146 Birkenhead - Mill Park to a combined hourly frequency sounds good too. However I don’t know if this would cost more to implement them what’s available now. However they do waste money with the Moreton circulars running until 11pm at night. 38 should be West Kirby - Croft via Sandbrook (if this diversion can be squeezed in)

Finally somebody who echos what I've said the whole time. Any route that picks people up like the 145,418 gets axed, other routes like the 38 have been taken all over the place to pick up the pieces, yet routes like the Moreton circulars continue to run picking up fresh air all night.

I don't use the bus now, I regularly used the 418/118, but not viable for me to use any other buses since the bus review, too little to infrequent. Buy a car.


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - mrd97 - 11/06/2019 17:16

(11/06/2019 17:00)L401CJF Wrote:  Finally somebody who echos what I've said the whole time. Any route that picks people up like the 145,418 gets axed, other routes like the 38 have been taken all over the place to pick up the pieces, yet routes like the Moreton circulars continue to run picking up fresh air all night.

I don't use the bus now, I regularly used the 418/118, but not viable for me to use any other buses since the bus review, too little to infrequent. Buy a car.

I used the 119 frequency as I live in spital and my friends were based in Wallasey and Upton. So I know the feeling. Luckily I drive now.

I’d reinstate the 419 (418 isn’t needed, New Chester Road is already well served). Cut the 38 back to the Croft. Reintroduce the 145/6 on a combined hourly frequency. Cut back the 16/17 to Clatterbridge (419 will cover Eastham-Arrowe Park Link). I think this wouldn’t require any more buses if it’s cut back to hourly along the entire route

A 145/146 hourly service probably would use 2 buses.

84/85 Eastham Ferry - Clatterbridge circulars, via Mill Park, Raby Mere, Clatterbridge, Spital and Bromborough. Should be less than an hour round trip. Only uses 1 bus if it’s ran every 2 hours in either direction (for a combined hourly service)

Cutting the 38 back I’m unsure, definitely saves 1 bus, perhaps

Cutting the 16/16A/17 back to Clatterbridge saves 2 buses

So in theory, these proposals could actually reduce the current PVR


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - wirralbus - 11/06/2019 20:27

(11/06/2019 17:16)mrd97 Wrote:  I used the 119 frequency as I live in spital and my friends were based in Wallasey and Upton. So I know the feeling. Luckily I drive now.

I’d reinstate the 419 (418 isn’t needed, New Chester Road is already well served). Cut the 38 back to the Croft. Reintroduce the 145/6 on a combined hourly frequency. Cut back the 16/17 to Clatterbridge (419 will cover Eastham-Arrowe Park Link). I think this wouldn’t require any more buses if it’s cut back to hourly along the entire route

A 145/146 hourly service probably would use 2 buses.

84/85 Eastham Ferry - Clatterbridge circulars, via Mill Park, Raby Mere, Clatterbridge, Spital and Bromborough. Should be less than an hour round trip. Only uses 1 bus if it’s ran every 2 hours in either direction (for a combined hourly service)

Cutting the 38 back I’m unsure, definitely saves 1 bus, perhaps

Cutting the 16/16A/17 back to Clatterbridge saves 2 buses

So in theory, these proposals could actually reduce the current PVR

1. The 119 was a merseytravel service , now its been off the agenda for so long ,Merseytravel will not fill the hole , there is more important places like Noctorum or Beechwood that are further up the pecking order.

2. The 145/146 would not be worthwhile if the 38 stays on its long winded round the world job between Boundary Road and Eastham Ferry / Mill Park Estate.

3. The present 16/16A/17 actually increase Stagecoach share of the market in the Eastham area , does the have to serve Blakeley Road though .


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - mrd97 - 11/06/2019 21:46

(11/06/2019 20:27)wirralbus Wrote:  1. The 119 was a merseytravel service , now its been off the agenda for so long ,Merseytravel will not fill the hole , there is more important places like Noctorum or Beechwood that are further up the pecking order.

2. The 145/146 would not be worthwhile if the 38 stays on its long winded round the world job between Boundary Road and Eastham Ferry / Mill Park Estate.

3. The present 16/16A/17 actually increase Stagecoach share of the market in the Eastham area , does the have to serve Blakeley Road though .

I know it was, my suggestions were about the 419. I used the 119 as an example where I used that service, as it follows nearly the same route

That’s what I was saying, cut it back to the Croft. Have a 145/146 instead. 38 always seems quiet past the Croft, and no wonder, as it goes around the world

And I know, I would of thought it they were to introduce a 84/5 Eastham Ferry - Clatterbridge circular, it would be ran by Stagecoach

I know none of these proposals will ever happen, I’m just saying what are far more ideal services, and tried to explain how they could be implemented without necessarily spending more money


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - mr t - 12/06/2019 00:39

(11/06/2019 20:27)wirralbus Wrote:  1. The 119 was a merseytravel service , now its been off the agenda for so long ,Merseytravel will not fill the hole , there is more important places like Noctorum or Beechwood that are further up the pecking order.

2. The 145/146 would not be worthwhile if the 38 stays on its long winded round the world job between Boundary Road and Eastham Ferry / Mill Park Estate.

3. The present 16/16A/17 actually increase Stagecoach share of the market in the Eastham area , does the have to serve Blakeley Road though .

Merseytravel already have the details from Stagecoach of the changes planned and already know what changes they are making to fill the gaps created.

However they are not allowed to advertise publicly or comment until every routes are signed off together which is often only few weeks before due to last minute tweaks when testing the new network. This then seems like merseytravel dont care or arent doing anything the same with Stagecoach but obviously by that timep public and passengers and councillors are already making their own big changes up which are always way off the track


RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Chester & Wirral Depots - Gillmoss 0324 - 12/06/2019 08:40

Sorry if this has already been answered but what ex-Kettering Gold Enviro400’s have still to enter service yet?

I’ve seen/used 15739, 15740, 15742, 17545, 17546, 15746, 15748 & 15749 in service and I think from the past posts here 15743, 15744 & 15751 are in service but I’ve yet to see or hear of 15741 a 15747 running yet? I know 15741 might not see service, but are 15743, 15744, 15747 & 15751 runners at the moment? Hope to do these at some point fairly soon.

Generally I find it strange how much of a hammering these ex-Kettering Gold’s got from their previous lives (operating territory) as I used 15739 and it seems the front dome took a bit of a big hit at some point in it’s career. Most of the others seem a bit bashed around too and is the damaged/problems on 15741 too much to be sorted out?

Considering they’re the same age as Speke’s Gemini’s Arriva's seem in a much better condition generally. Hopefully they’ll get sorted and settle down for a few years at RF.

Thanks again.