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RE: First Chester & Wirral - First Class - 30/09/2012 17:29

Merseytravel isn't worth a carrot.

Allowing First to run buses from 1997/1998 on journeys that are well over 1 hour, with no refurbishment, 15 year old vehicles are outrageous on a "Quality" partnership. Arriva have obviously got much newer vehicles, but because the partnership gives First the majority share of services, you have a much higher chance of an older vehicle turning up. 100% chance on a Sunday/Bank Holiday/evening.

As for those going to Cheshire Oaks/Zoo etc, (families, tourists etc), they too will ALWAYS be forced to use such poor quality vehicles.

That said, Arriva aren't always able to comply either, despite the much fewer services they operate. A few X reg cadets, (i.e. 12 years old), have appeared.

As for ticketing, Merseytravel IMO should have also ensured that the All Zone Saveaway product was extended to Chester on services 1/2, (just like train). That would have been a massive benefit and a real improvement.

Things that need to be fixed ASAP:

Orange LED Displays to be installed that meet DDA. (Not ones that just say 1 Chester).
CCTV should be installed. This IMO is one of the most important and shocking omissions.
Some sort of GPS based information display on board and at stops (as specified on the Croxteth 14)
Newer, modern vehicles which meet some sort of emission standard


RE: First Chester & Wirral - R879 HRF - 30/09/2012 20:38

First have started installing CCTV on their scanias.
The scanias will also be going over the next year or so being replaced with newer single decks.

Its not as if Arriva have really put much effort in on their half of the partnership either - even with their 59 plates on the chesters i havnt once had one on time, and despite their age theyre rattlier than all of firsts scania ultralows put together! - They hold the main part of the 471/2s, yet they prefer to use clapped out S reg deckers which passed their best long before they even left London! Not much excuse for that, especially of a night when there are nice amount of 58 plate enviros sat in Laird Street garage!

There is a huge room for improvement in the partnership, but the operators have already thought about a few of the issues. All in good time Smile


RE: First Chester & Wirral - wirralbus - 30/09/2012 20:39

Being able to know where your bus is in relation to the bus stop your at would be a very good project to forward to the relative authorities , anything that makes bus services reliable to the waiting passengers would be welcomed.


RE: First Chester & Wirral - Bevan Price - 30/09/2012 22:24

(30/09/2012 17:29)First Class Wrote:  Merseytravel isn't worth a carrot.


As for ticketing, Merseytravel IMO should have also ensured that the All Zone Saveaway product was extended to Chester on services 1/2, (just like train). That would have been a massive benefit and a real improvement.

Things that need to be fixed ASAP:

Sounds like a good idea - BUT - even if they were willing to accept them, Arriva and First would need to be paid to accept Saveaways outside the Merseytravel area. Where is the extra money going to come from ? Higher council tax payments from everyone ?


RE: First Chester & Wirral - First Class - 30/09/2012 22:52

(30/09/2012 22:24)Bevan Price Wrote:  
(30/09/2012 17:29)First Class Wrote:  Merseytravel isn't worth a carrot.


As for ticketing, Merseytravel IMO should have also ensured that the All Zone Saveaway product was extended to Chester on services 1/2, (just like train). That would have been a massive benefit and a real improvement.

Things that need to be fixed ASAP:

Sounds like a good idea - BUT - even if they were willing to accept them, Arriva and First would need to be paid to accept Saveaways outside the Merseytravel area. Where is the extra money going to come from ? Higher council tax payments from everyone ?

No, you simply re-distribute the pot, at the moment it is something like 65% railways, 30% buses, 5% ferry.

My personal preference is to reduce the ferry percentage, (seeing as it is already Merseytravel) and put it to the buses.

That said, Cheshire County Council may be interested in supporting that idea.

You could probably force them to accept them too, (without any additional payment), by specifying it in the contract terms for the QBP.


RE: First Chester & Wirral - wirralbus - 01/10/2012 01:02

(30/09/2012 22:52)First Class Wrote:  
(30/09/2012 22:24)Bevan Price Wrote:  
(30/09/2012 17:29)First Class Wrote:  Merseytravel isn't worth a carrot.


As for ticketing, Merseytravel IMO should have also ensured that the All Zone Saveaway product was extended to Chester on services 1/2, (just like train). That would have been a massive benefit and a real improvement.

Things that need to be fixed ASAP:

Sounds like a good idea - BUT - even if they were willing to accept them, Arriva and First would need to be paid to accept Saveaways outside the Merseytravel area. Where is the extra money going to come from ? Higher council tax payments from everyone ?

No, you simply re-distribute the pot, at the moment it is something like 65% railways, 30% buses, 5% ferry.

My personal preference is to reduce the ferry percentage, (seeing as it is already Merseytravel) and put it to the buses.

That said, Cheshire County Council may be interested in supporting that idea.

You could probably force them to accept them too, (without any additional payment), by specifying it in the contract terms for the QBP.

Its supposed to be a partnership , not a dictatorship these QBP's. I also think that if you allow the saveaways to be used on the 1 and 2 , then Avon will start complaining that they should be used on the 22 and 24 the West Wirral poor relations of the 1 and 2.


RE: First Chester & Wirral - First Class - 01/10/2012 12:10

(01/10/2012 01:02)wirralbus Wrote:  
(30/09/2012 22:52)First Class Wrote:  
(30/09/2012 22:24)Bevan Price Wrote:  Sounds like a good idea - BUT - even if they were willing to accept them, Arriva and First would need to be paid to accept Saveaways outside the Merseytravel area. Where is the extra money going to come from ? Higher council tax payments from everyone ?

No, you simply re-distribute the pot, at the moment it is something like 65% railways, 30% buses, 5% ferry.

My personal preference is to reduce the ferry percentage, (seeing as it is already Merseytravel) and put it to the buses.

That said, Cheshire County Council may be interested in supporting that idea.

You could probably force them to accept them too, (without any additional payment), by specifying it in the contract terms for the QBP.

Its supposed to be a partnership , not a dictatorship these QBP's. I also think that if you allow the saveaways to be used on the 1 and 2 , then Avon will start complaining that they should be used on the 22 and 24 the West Wirral poor relations of the 1 and 2.

Legally, it is supposed to be a dictatorship IMO, with bus companies complying with whatever Merseytravel specifies as the statutory authority.

As far as I can ascertain the Merseytravel schemes are not voluntary partnership schemes, but statutory quality partnerships.

If the 1/2 is a SQP, (rather than VPS), then Merseytravel need only change the wording in the Ticketing Agreement.

It seems to be that SQPs are like franchises, where Merseytravel specifies the minimum standards, and anyone who wants to run on the 1/2 route must comply.


RE: First Chester & Wirral - moreton407 - 01/10/2012 12:22

Re ticketing,

why is it that monthly tickets can be used on Arriva/First 1/2/X2 and 471/472 but not on Arriva/Stagecoach 10A/14/53/82/86?


RE: First Chester & Wirral - First Class - 01/10/2012 15:27

(01/10/2012 12:22)moreton407 Wrote:  Re ticketing,

why is it that monthly tickets can be used on Arriva/First 1/2/X2 and 471/472 but not on Arriva/Stagecoach 10A/14/53/82/86?

Probably because Arriva don't do a Sunday or evening service and the fact they run only a few services on the 2, so anyone with an Arriva monthly ticket couldn't use it as much.


RE: First Chester & Wirral - R879 HRF - 02/10/2012 11:49

I sort of understand why saveaways cant be used on the 1/2 to Chester as its quite a way over the boundary.

BUT, on the subject of merseytravel zones... it really doesnt make any sense to have the boundary at Yew Tree Farm and Boathouse lane near Parkgate / Neston, it would make sense to extend it the extra 3 stops into Neston - its meant to be a public service, the extra 3 stops wont harm surley? Anyway, best get back to topic..

on the subject of saveaways on the 1/2/X2, being a partnership with Merseytravel and Cheshire W&C council, they'd probably agree it beneficial - Maybe not as far as Chester, but as far as Ellesmere Port at least..

We can only hope!