(21/04/2020 11:54)buses7675 Wrote: [ -> ]I've added 5298 in but removed 5202 and 8005 as someone 'in the know' who I asked is pretty sure these never existed so we'll ignore them unless someone else can find an answer!
Only 5202 I can remember was back in the days of MTL Manchester, may have been AHH202T as a few ex Cumberland ones were acquired.....
HTH
PS - that would be another fairly interesting project....all the vehicles acquired by MTL for MTL Manchester!
Yeah someone else suggested AHH202T but that would have been well gone before Arriva bought MTL
An MTL Manchester fleetlist (all time I guess, everything they ever operated) would be interesting but I wouldn't know where to start on that - I do remember bits of it but I was only 11 or 12 at the time so not a lot of first hand information regarding all that!
There is a fleetlist of nationals that MTL Manchester had on that thread. This was posted by another member. (Posted by Mathias, post 10)
I have a MTL North fleetlist at the takeover by Arriva. Taken mostly from the Arriva 2000 fleetbook where they had "Arriva Merseyside" in its' own section - with separate sub headings for MTL North, Heysham Travel and Fareway. A couple of mistakes on this list, which I've corrected for my list which is on an Excel document.
For the record there were 995 vehicles in the fleet, of which there were 18 training vehicles and 52 unallocated / disposal pool vehicles.
I'm fairly sure this was just before the takeover because the final batch Marshall Darts 7670-75, that were delivered in January 2000, were unallocated. 7676 was already allocated to Green Lane.
Anyone who'd like a copy of this fleetlist, please DM me!
In a related matter, is it true that Volvos 2701-30 were originally a MTL order that Arriva honoured?
Not sure whether it was those or the B6BLE's that were ordered by MTL.
(01/05/2020 16:49)St Helens Rider Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure whether it was those or the B6BLE's that were ordered by MTL.
The B6s probably make more sense. Arriva ordered about 30 Wright Cadet-bodied B6s at the time (1999-2001) for other subsidiaries - not exactly a standard Arriva bus, but Wright Renown-bodied B10s were. On saying that, the 75-Marshall Darts that MTL purchased and received in 1999/2000 were hardly top of the range. One wonders whether the company could afford Volvos at this time?
(25/04/2020 14:41)buses7675 Wrote: [ -> ]I think that is the case with many operators but I guess too of note is that, compared to 20 years ago, the number of new bus types/manufacturers is far lower than it was.
Just to use one example, nowadays an Enviro200 is only available with the standard ADL body, but an equaivalent Dennis Dart SLF in 2000 was available with Plaxton Pointer 2, Alexander ALX200, Marshall Capital, East Lancs Spryte, Wright Crusader (I think production on Dart just about carried on until then?) and Caetano Nimbus (Caetano Compass/UVG Urbanstar production had just finished). Going back to step entrance Darts there were Northern Counties bodies too!
Thank you for this insight. Another factor could be that MTL had quite an elderly fleet, meaning examples of vehicles from other manufacturers who had built those new.
I'd also heard the X-plate Volvo's 27** and 28** where an MTL order and arriva honoured the deliver so long as the interior colours could be changed to fit into arriva livery.
(01/05/2020 17:40)teenagewasteland Wrote: [ -> ]The B6s probably make more sense. Arriva ordered about 30 Wright Cadet-bodied B6s at the time (1999-2001) for other subsidiaries - not exactly a standard Arriva bus, but Wright Renown-bodied B10s were. On saying that, the 75-Marshall Darts that MTL purchased and received in 1999/2000 were hardly top of the range. One wonders whether the company could afford Volvos at this time?
Not sure, but MTL were on the verge of going bankrupt if they weren't brought out by someone weren't they, going into the rail business i think is what cost them big time.
It's funny the ex London Titans went to Liverpool & St Helens depots, none went to Laird Street, don't think any went to Southport, Laird Street just had Atlanteans & the batch of Cross River Express Volvo Olympians, i felt the CRE olympians were far superior than the ones later delivered to Gillmoss for the 4/5/14, not just in passenger comfort either.
(07/05/2020 22:38)MTL0201 Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure, but MTL were on the verge of going bankrupt if they weren't brought out by someone weren't they, going into the rail business i think is what cost them big time.
It's funny the ex London Titans went to Liverpool & St Helens depots, none went to Laird Street, don't think any went to Southport, Laird Street just had Atlanteans & the batch of Cross River Express Volvo Olympians, i felt the CRE olympians were far superior than the ones later delivered to Gillmoss for the 4/5/14, not just in passenger comfort either.
I'm speculating here.
There was never really a big call for large-capacity double deck buses in Southport. They had their own PD2s, but after Southport converted to fully OMO in 1974 (the first division of the PTE to do so) they soon realised that the d/d half-cabs were quite unsuitable for this kind of operation and stuck with their own Panthers and AN68s, plus some transferred ex-Liverpool Panthers and a small batch of new East Lancs-bodied AN68s before settling down, becoming a National stronghold, coupled with a few new AL-bodied Atlanteans thrown in for good measure. And the thing is, it's never really changed. Even now, there's only about 10 deckers at Canning Road, and most of them are generally assigned to one particular route. The Titans, for Southport anyway, would have been completely non-standard for pretty much a stand-alone operation. Even when GM Buses began competing with MTL in the town, the recent revamp as "Southport and District Buses" and local support for this brand stopped the Manchester operator in their tracks.
Laird Street never took them, but I think that there wasn't the need for them on the Wirral? The fleet at LS, at the time (1992-94) was well-maintained and fairly standard. The competition on that side didn't warrant huge numbers of Titans being drafted in quickly to fend off other operators, though if the need arose I'm sure MTL would have done.
Liverpool and St.Helens were overrun with competition, and the Titans quickly filled gaps to counter these incursions and they replaced many of the clapped-out Willowbrook and East Lancs bodied AN68s. Some of the earliest AL-bodied AN68s saw well over 20 years service on Merseyside's streets - they were well-built and mechanically robust too.