Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

[MTL0201]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising
Saw an Ultroliner on type training in Moreton earlier.

[MTL0201]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising
Thinking again, would it be better getting rid of the Saughall Massie double run on the 38A [438A] & run it direct between Moreton & Meols as 38 [438], seeing as other routes 417 & new 483/484 are going to cover Saughall Massie area in the evening & Sunday along with the 1B soon to be 403?

[Jw88]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(21/09/2026 20:54)MTL0201 Wrote:  Thinking again, would it be better getting rid of the Saughall Massie double run on the 38A [438A] & run it direct between Moreton & Meols as 38 [438], seeing as other routes 417 & new 483/484 are going to cover Saughall Massie area in the evening & Sunday along with the 1B soon to be 403?

Does Saughall Massie need that many buses of a night? 4 routes is a large increase for the area considering the 38A and 1B are already lightly loaded during these hours. If timing allowed i would personally have the 407 doing a loop after Moreton Cross, through Town Meadow Lane and Millhouse Lane, then down to Saughall Masise, up Borrowdale Road before going back to Moreton cross and then onto Liverpool, have the 38/38A not serving Saughall Massie, but going straight to Meols and the 483/484 going via Overchurch to Moreton, not Saughall Massie. I would also withdraw evening 1B journeys, it runs at the same time as the 38A in both directions

I am also looking at the 91 (491) timetable, there is a morning journey that goes from Birkenhead to Prenton and just terminates in Prenton, it does not seem to interwork with anything, very odd.

[MTL0201]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(Yesterday 12:50)Jw88 Wrote:  Does Saughall Massie need that many buses of a night? 4 routes is a large increase for the area considering the 38A and 1B are already lightly loaded during these hours. If timing allowed i would personally have the 407 doing a loop after Moreton Cross, through Town Meadow Lane and Millhouse Lane, then down to Saughall Masise, up Borrowdale Road before going back to Moreton cross and then onto Liverpool, have the 38/38A not serving Saughall Massie, but going straight to Meols and the 483/484 going via Overchurch to Moreton, not Saughall Massie. I would also withdraw evening 1B journeys, it runs at the same time as the 38A in both directions

I am also looking at the 91 (491) timetable, there is a morning journey that goes from Birkenhead to Prenton and just terminates in Prenton, it does not seem to interwork with anything, very odd.

They'd have to retime the 407 a few minutes earlier & scrap the extra Liverpool-Birkenhead Sunday daytime shorts if the 407 was to go via Saughall Massie, as it's timed for a 2 minute layover at Town Meadow before heading back to Liverpool.

The 38A evening & Sunday route was introduced in 2014, Avon withdrew the 40/40A a few weeks later.

Quite a few changes 2010-14 to the Moreton-West Kirby evening & Sunday services, as that was 186, then became 86 before being replaced by 38A, which killed 2 birds with 1 stone.

[wirralbus]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(Yesterday 13:51)MTL0201 Wrote:  They'd have to retime the 407 a few minutes earlier & scrap the extra Liverpool-Birkenhead Sunday daytime shorts if the 407 was to go via Saughall Massie, as it's timed for a 2 minute layover at Town Meadow before heading back to Liverpool.

The 38A evening & Sunday route was introduced in 2014, Avon withdrew the 40/40A a few weeks later.

Quite a few changes 2010-14 to the Moreton-West Kirby evening & Sunday services, as that was 186, then became 86 before being replaced by 38A, which killed 2 birds with 1 stone.

Think they picked the wrong service of the two to keep running at night .
Instead of the 417 they should of kept the 416 , seving Manor Drive and also serving Spital , Bromborough and Eastham . Raby of all places doesnt need an Evening and Sunday service .

[moreton407]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(Yesterday 18:06)wirralbus Wrote:  Think they picked the wrong service of the two to keep running at night .
Instead of the 417 they should of kept the 416 , seving Manor Drive and also serving Spital , Bromborough and Eastham . Raby of all places doesnt need an Evening and Sunday service .

The daft thing is that the 417 doesn't serve Spital towards Bromborough but does on the way back to Moreton. Hence why it's a circular daytimes with the 416. Maybe they should alternate the evening and Sunday to have it two hourly each way around Bromborough.

[moreton407]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(Yesterday 13:51)MTL0201 Wrote:  They'd have to retime the 407 a few minutes earlier & scrap the extra Liverpool-Birkenhead Sunday daytime shorts if the 407 was to go via Saughall Massie, as it's timed for a 2 minute layover at Town Meadow before heading back to Liverpool.

The 38A evening & Sunday route was introduced in 2014, Avon withdrew the 40/40A a few weeks later.

Quite a few changes 2010-14 to the Moreton-West Kirby evening & Sunday services, as that was 186, then became 86 before being replaced by 38A, which killed 2 birds with 1 stone.

They would be better withdrawing the 403 (1B) away from Saughall massie and just have it trundling around the Town Meadow Estate.

There certainly is no need for a evening 403 (1B). I see it every evening carrying nothing!

[Jw88]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(Yesterday 19:49)moreton407 Wrote:  The daft thing is that the 417 doesn't serve Spital towards Bromborough but does on the way back to Moreton. Hence why it's a circular daytimes with the 416. Maybe they should alternate the evening and Sunday to have it two hourly each way around Bromborough.

Another way could be to terminate the 417 at Eastham or Mill Park, then having the route operate via Bromborough and Eastham in both directions rather than being a circular through Raby Mere, It would be good to see if timing allowed for it to serve Bromborough Retail Park, I do feel a link is missing here, even if it was just the ASDA stop. for the northern section it could possibly alternate, one hour via Saughall Massie and Town Meadow, the other hour via Manor Drive.

[MTL0201]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising
That's daft too having the 417 operate Evening & Sunday but no 416, so you have buses going one way over the long circular from Clatterbridge via Eastham Rake but not the other way.

One idea could be cut 416/416A/417 to operate Moreton-Clatterbridge like it used to & operate a new circular from Clatterbridge to Eastham Rake or maybe extend the new 453 as a circular to cover that route.

[DVG526]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(Today 09:49)MTL0201 Wrote:  That's daft too having the 417 operate Evening & Sunday but no 416, so you have buses going one way over the long circular from Clatterbridge via Eastham Rake but not the other way.

One idea could be cut 416/416A/417 to operate Moreton-Clatterbridge like it used to & operate a new circular from Clatterbridge to Eastham Rake or maybe extend the new 453 as a circular to cover that route.

The 16/17/418 is another set of routes that could have been revamped for this network ‘change’. The 418 clearly doesn’t need to operate Arrowe Park to New Ferry, they could have made a better circular running the 16/17 via the old 418/419 routes doing a circular of Rock Ferry, New Ferry, Bromborough, Eastham, Spital, Clatterbridge, Bebington instead of wasting diesel serving Blakeley Road. The 453 could also have been joined with the 73 to give a better link between Heswall and Clatterbridge or possibly even added onto a West Kirby service to restore part of the old 85/186 route from West Kirby to Clatterbridge