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RE: Merseyrail - H101GEV - 11/04/2014 15:34
At least three six car services are clearly targeted at the Hunts Cross line specifically: the 08.06 Hunts Cross - Southport and the 16.28 and 16.43 Southport - Hunts Cross. All three are very heavily used by the Hunts Cross line commuters and more than justify their status as full-length units. A clear benefit of running the Hunts Cross line in tandem with the Southport line is the benefit for both lines. The 16.28 and 16.43 return from Hunts Cross as the 17.36 and 17.51 services and meet with the tail end of the evening rush at Moorfields on their way back to Southport.
The Kirkby line would definitely benefit from a six car, with both the 17.05 and 17.20 departures from Liverpool Central very busy on weekdays. Worse still is the 17.40 Central - Ormskirk, which was formerly a six car in Arriva days, now a crush-loaded three.
I've seen the Hooton line rush hour services a few times recently and it's a real mixed bag in terms of loadings. The 'additional' 16.37 Central - Ellesmere Port service seems to be particularly quiet and would be better if used to couple with the unit that forms the 17.15 Central - Chester service, a particularly busy service. There is another additional journey that I've never seen anything like at capacity: the 17.37 Central - Ellesmere Port, which uses the West Kirby line unit replaced by the evening six car. The Hooton line could be better balanced in terms of formations.
RE: Merseyrail - 507022 - 11/04/2014 22:08
Another point about Northern line 6 car trains on the Southport line is they can be detached at Southport when not needed after the morning peak and coupled again for the evening peak. If the Hunts Cross were to be tagged on to the Kirkby as was suggested, they would probably either have to be all 3 cars (when some peak ones would need 6) or keep the 6 cars on all day (when they would definitely not be needed)
RE: Merseyrail - LVC - 12/04/2014 04:00
By running Southport-Liverpool Central only you are forcing people travelling to stations in South Liverpool to change at Liverpool Central, making the platform there even busier which is the last thing that station needs. You're also cutting off the the busiest branch of the northern line from Liverpool South Parkway, a mainline connecting station and airport connections. In this respect it doesn't make sense. Agreed, operationally it makes sense as less opportunity for delay accumulation, but from the point of view of the passenger it's just an added inconvenience.
RE: Merseyrail - wirralbus - 12/04/2014 06:46
The 1637 and 1737 services Liverpool to Ellesmere Port are services that give the 7/8 min peak hour service , in a service that frequent you will always have peaks and troughs , one consequence though of having such a frequent evening service though is not having to provide six cars . The 1715 Liverpool - Chester though is a diagram that is a diagram that stays out after the peak and is highly unlikely to have a six car
RE: Merseyrail - H101GEV - 12/04/2014 10:48
Another consequence of the 7/8 minute service is the 17.15 (and 17.45, if memory serves) Central - Chester are two very busy services while the 16.37 and 17.37 run less than half full. I don't really see the point in a 15 minute service to Ellesmere Port in the peaks - the branch is the most lightly used on the Merseyrail network by a long way. I feel it would be better for the majority of Hooton line passengers to have two six cars on the 17.15 and 17.45 instead of the 'extra' Ellesmere Port trains. Fewer trains per hour of course but the same number of carriages and a better spread of capacity.
The Hunts Cross line, were it connected to the Kirkby route as suggested, would presumably have to run 15 minutes throughout in the evenings to keep up the current service levels. This would likely be superfluous for the Kirkby line, which is quieter than the Hunts Cross line in the evenings.
RE: Merseyrail - wirralbus - 12/04/2014 12:52
What you could do to enable a fifteen minute service on the Hunts Cross is to have the evening service on both the Ormskirk and Kirkby services continue onto Hunts Cross , much as it is now .
An improvement in the Sunday service should be made to make the service every 15 minutes between Hunts Cross and Kirkdale .
I think the reason for the frequent peak service to Ellesmere Port was to appease Cheshire County Council who basically said we wouldnt fund the electrification without the branch to Ellesmere Port being done as well as the line to Chester.
Prior to the 4 trains an hour service to Chester , some services to Chester were starting to get very busy to the point some services arrived and departed Chester full with little opportunity for passengers enroute getting either on board or a seat. xx31 from Chester is still a notoriously busy service with passengers travelling along the North Wales Coast joining the service at Chester.
RE: Merseyrail - H101GEV - 12/04/2014 13:37
The improvement for Sunday services is clear: 15 minutes between Southport and Liverpool is required year-round. This could be extended in the summer to every 15 minutes to Hunts Cross the route using the usual six car trains (only one additional set is needed). As has been mentioned, having Ormskirk and Kirkby line trains continuing to Hunts Cross would force a lot of people to change trains for cross-town journeys (the clear majority of those being made between the Southport and Hunts Cross route sections).
I do understand why the Ellesmere Port branch was electrified in the first place, but the loadings I see do nothing to justify a 15 minute peak time service. As I say, the stock used for these services would be better utilised elsewhere.
RE: Merseyrail - ls1911 - 12/04/2014 13:44
(12/04/2014 10:48)507009 Wrote: Another consequence of the 7/8 minute service is the 17.15 (and 17.45, if memory serves) Central - Chester are two very busy services while the 16.37 and 17.37 run less than half full. I don't really see the point in a 15 minute service to Ellesmere Port in the peaks - the branch is the most lightly used on the Merseyrail network by a long way. I feel it would be better for the majority of Hooton line passengers to have two six cars on the 17.15 and 17.45 instead of the 'extra' Ellesmere Port trains. Fewer trains per hour of course but the same number of carriages and a better spread of capacity.
The Hunts Cross line, were it connected to the Kirkby route as suggested, would presumably have to run 15 minutes throughout in the evenings to keep up the current service levels. This would likely be superfluous for the Kirkby line, which is quieter than the Hunts Cross line in the evenings.
Quite how you'd manage to couple extra coaches to the 1715/1745 Chester services when there's no time/ability to do so is a different matter
RE: Merseyrail - wirralbus - 12/04/2014 13:44
There had been talk of cutting down the Ellesmere port service to a shuttle service from Hooton when the four trains to Chester came but the fear in doing that is that you lose the passengers to the bus service as they do not have to change anywhere enroute.
Those extra Ellesmere Port services are probably only in the timetable to say that there is 8 trains an hour between 5 and 6pm , rather than the more normal 6 trains an hour .
RE: Merseyrail - H101GEV - 12/04/2014 13:52
(12/04/2014 13:44)ls1911 Wrote: Quite how you'd manage to couple extra coaches to the 1715/1745 Chester services when there's no time/ability to do so is a different matter
There isn't much time of course, but they could presumably be coupled at Chester by doing what they do on the Ormskirk line ahead of PM peak. Send a single unit ECS to Chester before the service train arrives and couple them in the station. It's tight but would save on a lot of overcrowding.