Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website

Surprised to see 156440 on Colne - Blackpool South service this morning - this line is usually worked by142's and 150's.

Posted on another forum the proposed standard pattern for Northern services departing Piccadilly from May 2018 is

Quote:XX:01 Crewe, calling at Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Handforth, Wilmslow, Alderley Edge, Chelford, Goostery, Holmes Chapel, Sandbach and Crewe

XX:09 Greenbank, calling at Stockport, Navigation Road, Altrincham, Hale, Ashley, Mobberley, Knutsford, Plumley, Lostock Gralam, Northwich and Greenbank

XX:09 Rose Hill, calling at Gorton, Guide Bridge, Hyde North, Hyde Central, Woodley, Romiley and Rose Hill

XX:11 New Mills Newtown, calling at Stockport, Hazel Grove, Middlewood (2 Hourly), Disley and New Mills Newtown

XX:17 Macclesfield, calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton and Macclesfield. This service starts at Blackpool North

XX:19 New Mills Central, calling at Ashburys, Belle Vue (2 hourly), Ryder Brow, Reddish North, Brinnington, Bredbury, Romiley, Marple, Strines (2 hourly) and New Mills Central

XX:24 Hazel Grove, calling at Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Davenport, Woodsmoor and Hazel Grove

XX:29 Hadfield, calling at Ashburys, Guide Bridge, Flowery Field, Newton for Hyde, Godley, Hattersley, Broadbottom, Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield

XX:30 Crewe, calling all stops to the Airport, then Styal, Wilmslow, Alderley Edge, Holmes Chapel, Sandbach and Crewe. This service starts at Liverpool

XX:37 Alderley Edge, Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Handforth, Wilmslow and Alderley Edge. This service starts at Wigan NW

XX:39 Rose Hill, calling at Ashburys, Gorton, Fairfield, Guide Bridge, Hyde Central, Woodley, Romiley and Rose Hill

XX:40 Chester, calling at Stockport, Altrincham, Hale, Knutsford, Northwich and Greenbank, Cuddington, Delamere, Mouldworth and Chester

XX:43 Stoke calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton, Adlington(Cheshire), Presbury, Macclesfield, Congleton, Kidsgrove and Stoke

XX:46 Buxton, calling at Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Davenport, Woodsmoor, Hazel Grove, New Mills Newtown, Furness Vale, Whaley Bridge, Chapel-en-le-Firth, Dove Holes (2 hourly) and Buxton

XX:49 Sheffield, calling at Reddish North, Brinnington, Bredbury, Romiley, Marple, Strines and at least New Mills Central. Most services will call Chinley, Edale, Hope, Bamford, Hathersage, Grindleford, Dore and Sheffield, but some will skip stop in the Hope Valley. Also, three trains, at 09:40, 11:40 and 21:43 don’t follow the pattern.

XX:59 Hadfield, calling at Ashburys, Guide Bridge, Flowery Field, Newton for Hyde, Godley, Hattersley, Broadbottom, Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield

They'll no longer be an Airport-Piccadilly shuttle. The 5 Northern services terminating at the Airport will call at one of:
Mauldeth Rd and Burnage
East Didsbury and Heald Green
Gatley and Heald Green
East Didsbury only
Heald Green only

It's also been reported '319 Flex' trains will be used on the Alderley Edge-Wigan and Wigan-Stalybridge services. At peak times only the Alderley Edge service will be extended to Southport to retain a peak time service between Piccadilly and Southport.

From Lime Street

Quote:(Via Huyton)
xx:00 Stations to Warrington BQ via Earlestown
xx:15 Stations to St. Helens Cen & Wigan NW
xx:29 Stations to Manchester Airport & Crewe
xx:36 Huyton, St. Helens Cen., Wigan NW then stations to Blackpool North
xx:45 Stations to St. Helens Cen & Wigan NW

(CLC Line)
xx:18 to Manchester Airport (semi-fast replacing the current TPE service)
xx:21 Manchester Oxford Road (skip-stop)
xx:55 Manchester Oxford Road (skip-stop)

and Manchester Victoria

Quote:xx:05 (Starts at Southport via Atherton) - Man. Vic. - Rochdale then most stations to Blackburn.
xx:09 (Blackburn/Bolton) - Man Vic. - stations to Rochdale
xx:20 (Chester/Warrington/Earlestown/NewtonLeW) - Man Vic - Rochdale - Todmorden semi-fast to Leeds
xx:37 (Southport via Atherton) - Man. Vic - Rochdale then most stations to Leeds
xx:42 (Clitheroe/Blackburn) - Man Vic - stations to Rochdale
xx:57 (Man. Airport) - Man Vic - semi-fast to Leeds

xx:23 Man. Vic - Stalybridge
xx:53 (Wigan NW) - Man. Vic. - Stalybridge

Some very interesting new links there. Blackpool North - Macclesfield and Lime Street - Manchester - Airport - Crewe are the ones which stand out in my mind. The only caveat for the prompt start of the Blackpool - Macclesfield is that the electrification is completed on time.

(30/05/2017 16:02)St Helens Rider Wrote: [ -> ]Some very interesting new links there. Blackpool North - Macclesfield and Lime Street - Manchester - Airport - Crewe are the ones which stand out in my mind. The only caveat for the prompt start of the Blackpool - Macclesfield is that the electrification is completed on time.

The only problem with combining two lines into one service is you now make the Manchester Airport - Crewe section suffer for any problems on the Liverpool - Manchester Airport section of the route .

As a matter of interest at this present time is the Manchester - Crewe direct service and the Manchester - Crewe via Manchester Airport serviceself contained diagrams or do they inter work ?

The 1004 Preston to Barrow service was short formed today with the DBSO and 2 x TSO. The train was hauled by 37424 (37558) Avro Vulcan XH558.

(30/05/2017 19:02)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]Is there any info on peak enhancements and/or unit allocation? Also, how flexible are the plans in case of developments like competing bus services being reduced?

I think any additional new peak time enhancements in to Piccadilly other than more consistent timing and longer trains are unlikely due to a lack of paths. The additional Mid-Cheshire, Buxton line and Macclesfield services will take up the paths freed up by the opening of the Ordsall Chord, as per the franchise agreement.

The plans have been sent to 'stakeholders' which include PTEs, local councils and RUGs so they can feed back on them. It seems the plan is to have an hourly service from Styal which will help Cheshire East council argue that the 200 service isn't required. I imagine if Manchester Airport and National Trust worked with TfGM they could get the 288 to extend to Quarry Bank Mill via the Viewing Park (both MAG and NT provide funding for the 200 currently.) Once the plans have been finalised it won't be possible to make major changes if local authorities decide to withdraw bus services, until a subsequent recast (likely December 2019.)

Major changes invariably happen on the railway with the main timetable changes which have now settled down to May (previously June) and December.

Minor changes can happen every 28 days usually at the end of every railway finance period .

156484 was in Lime St this morning, is this one that's based at Heaton or is it a recent acquisition for Northern - it's not one I rembember seeing before

(31/05/2017 22:46)507022 Wrote: [ -> ]156484 was in Lime St this morning, is this one that's based at Heaton or is it a recent acquisition for Northern - it's not one I rembember seeing before

156484 is a Heaton unit. It has not been recently acquired and is a regular visitor.

(31/05/2017 19:57)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]> Thanks,
It was possible retiming (or re-allocation of carriages) of peak hour trains I was thinking of - given the haphazard timings of the Hope Valley line at the moment. The peak departure gaps are 13 min, 20 min, 27 min, 16 min, 15 min* & 17 min.
* This one is regularly shown as running late on RTI a good 50 minutes before scheduled departure.

Totally agree that it would make sense to merge (Mo-Sa daytime) 288s with the 200 to form a through service with more efficient use of existing resources.

As regards competing bus services, I was thinking of commercial services, but I take your point about subsidised services, as it illustrates yet another way in which anything to do with rail takes a lot longer to organise than buses.

Unfortunately, due to the variety of services operating in the Manchester area at different frequencies it's unlikely they'll ever be equal intervals between services for every possible journey. However, saying that it appears the timetables for the most recent major recast weren't written as well as they could have been.

Like I've said before bus operators get too much freedom to change services without giving passengers adequate notice. It's not unknown for operators to apply to withdraw a service or make a major change the required 56 days in advance but then for neither the operator or the local authority to publicise the change until a couple of weeks before the change. Although, one issue is when the operator gives their 56 days notice to cancel a service if they were to tell passengers straight away it might mean the passengers worry unnecessarily if another operator ends up running the exactly the same service to the same times. However, in response to your point surely the first point of call after a commercial service is withdrawn is for the local authority to decide whether there's a viable alternative and if not and there's adequate usage then they should look at awarding a contract which retains the most essential journeys on that route.