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Diamond Bus North West
RE: Diamond Bus North West
(16/07/2019 21:59)Neukit Wrote:  What’s the history to the 575 route, and the current competition between Arriva and Diamond?

First dropped it in early 2018 and Diamond North West registered over their journey's, GM Buses had ran it for quite some time before, but there journeys never ran beyond Horwich, the Arriva journey's to Wigan were originally Blue Bbus Journey's, if I am not mistaken partially replaced First Manchester journeys on service 617 which were withdrawn by First Manchester at least in part although they took over Blue Bus journey's as well on the route which at one stage past Blue Buses depot at Locomotion Industrial Estate, which is situated behind Horwich Fire Station. Whether Diamond may extend there 575 to Wigan in order to get members of their fleet there, to operate journeys there, remains to be seen. No doub't the original origin is in Bolton Tram routes and indeed Horwich had a small tram depot that is still standing as the ASL Motor Factor's garage branch in Horwich, on Chorley New Road. That building has a date stone and without seeing a picture of it I can't see, but that's where and when it would have begun,then becoming Bolton Corporation Buses, the Selnec, then GMT, then GM Buses and so on.
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(16/07/2019 19:33)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Well lets see shall we, the depots are completely at the wrong end of the route, depots at the Manchester end are silly because that is the larger town/city that is were people are travelling from not to at night, the same with the Trafford Centre so there starts a decline, who is going to travel on a point less journey from Leigh to the Trafford Centre that Diamond have made totally piintless by removing the return jsut so the bus can be garaged at Eccles?, so the next journey before gets withdrawn then the next and the next and so it goes till there is nothing left. And don't tell me I am wrong I've seen it all before when the previous Atherton closed, when Swinton closed etc, there is only two routes left from the previous Atherton at Bolton and one of those was from Bolton to Manchester, and one left at Wigan so don't tell it doesn't lead to cuts because it does. None of those routes have been replaced by FirstGroup just gradually dropped over the years, now considering Bolton took 70% of Atherton's fleet and Wigan 20% its a prity poor retention rate. Yet car usership in the same period locally has gone up by 30%, hardly surprising is it? Now how is that good for local people?

What ever the lease is at Atherton is Rotala's problem not mine, and I have suggested alternatives, but simply even if Rotala do get Vantage you have admitted it has no future so why not just terminate the lease and walk away rather than leaving a building to be vandalised?

Super depots are an excuse just to cut services and take the industry into a decline, cutting costs makes things worse not better and saves no services what so ever just depletes them. I note Liverpool has no Superdepots yet there services are pritty much left alone and are growing, Brighton as well. Show me one example were a Super Depot has improved service? One example were a Super Depot has not declined traffic since it opened?

Stagecoach also has only about two super depots in its entire portfolio and both of those are in Manchester, yet service elsewhere isn't declining and the small depots work perfectly adequately, and there bus company profits are growing were First that like Super Depots are in terminal decline so your theory on Super Depots is absolute rubbish. Small is beautiful, big is bad.

Where also did I state anything on Rotala's future plans thats all you saying what they will do? But as you've now admitted they intend to cut services. Hence the drop in vehicles by about 100, its not just down to Vantage, as you claim its down to cutting services and wholesale service cuts that Rotala are probably intending to bring in through the back door in September, in order to recover the costs its paid out on it. Otherwise you explain why there are 100 vehicles fewer within the combined business when there were few spares anyway at either Bolton (First) or Atherton (Rotala)?

And Rotala is hardly a company to write home about is it, when it has the worse passenger satisfaction in the whole Country in Redditch?

Moan, moan, moan..... It's not really surprising, when you've had to put up with the abortion First have made in Manchester. The Fingland's purchase & expansion in to South Manchester was another well orchestrated/ fruitful move, NOT.

I'll respond how I see fit, especially to very blinkered viewpoints. Based on your First & particularly Arriva sale predictions... that post ruined any creditability you had. What were you smoking when you came up with some of those pearls......

Do you not think services would still be around if people actually used them?? And they were profitable to operate?? Check the National Bus Passenger Journey statics, I think you'll find they've been in decline for years and show no signs of changing, long before super depots became popular.

I doubt Rotala would be interested in your alternatives, once again, you're simply posting what you think you can see without knowing all the facts, hence my future plans & lease commitment points, instead of not looking past the end of your nose. I've said no such thing about Vantage having no future.

My theory on super depots is rubbish, really?? Small depots being beautiful is very last century, may have been norm in the 1980's, was a PTE thing, not nowadays, not going to happen accept facts.

Stagecoach only having two super depots in it's entire portfolio? Non in Liverpool, really? Are you certain? do Gilmoss or West Ham not rings any bells ??? Brighton is no comparable to any major city bus operator.

I've admitted to no such thing again about any service cuts or made any claims as such, please stop making things up & get your facts straight before making accusations. There is no 100 drop in vehicle numbers, I think you need to re-check your sums 1+1=3 & all that. I do not have to explain or justify anything to you, you know it all, you tell us! Check the Bus service registrations, Rotala will be taking over all commercial services that First currently run.

And of course you could do a much better job at running Manchester's bus services, here's any idea, why don't you stand for Mayor and show us how it done....!
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(16/07/2019 21:05)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Existing depots won't yet have unions as they evolved either out of coach operations (Eccles/Atherton) or new start opps. (Atherton), Bolton does, but effectively Atherton staff who go to Bolton will no doubt be recruited to the Union by members there. The garage cost which I won't but an exact figure on as i've not got it to hand was between £5m and £6m then presume the loan of assets will then be a separate cost (e.g buses being loaned off FirstGroup, thats got to be a fair amount, then buying numbers of new buses in as well, I would say it makes them ripe for takeover themselves by somebody else, when the debt can't be paid off later, me only need to look at FirstGroup to see how its going to play out. That's if it doesn't fall at some stage into receivership especially if they can't turn losses around at Bolton.

Although granted they seem to be able to squeeze a profit out of very little and it has continued to grow, but its not been out of organic growth in existing opps, but by new acquisitions bolted on. The large fleet reduction at Bolton is certainly something that doesn't look good, which appears to have no explanation, for it to only need 125 buses, yet remove Vantage and a few other contracts can't be above 50 at absolute maximum , yet there is 215 currently there, then Rotala are moving part of Atherton in and claiming to be bringing in around 35 vehicles from elsewhere, that makes 200 with Atherton so minus 40 that makes in my eyes minus 65 vehicles that's a hell of a lot of service cuts. In effect they could simply close Atherton and give all the staff based there redundancy notices. Or is that whats coming????
.

There is no large fleet reduction coming at Bolton, you're posting complete rubbish.

Has it ever crossed your mind that other members of this forum may actually work for the depots/companies you're predicting doom & gloom for, with talk of redundancies coming, based on what exactly??
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(16/07/2019 23:26)Winston Wrote:  There is no large fleet reduction coming at Bolton, you're posting complete rubbish.

Has it ever crossed your mind that other members of this forum may actually work for the depots/companies you're predicting doom & gloom for, with talk of redundancies coming, based on what exactly??

Well you explain the drop in numbers then?

Current Fleet at Bolton 215
Current fleet at Atherton 55

Fleet being taken over from First on loan 125
Fleet being moved to Rusholme (max 50)
= 175 from 215 so that's down 40 before you start
Then we have 35 vehicles that Rotala have stated they are bringing in from elsewhere thats 160 on Bolton's fleet. Then bring in 40 from Atherton thats 200. So that's one hell of a drop from 270 to 200, so without service cuts what is it?, granted 15 vehicles worth of work is moving to that corrugated iron shack at Eccles but that's still down from 255 to 200 that's 55 vehicles down - so please find some reason for it before you start telling me I'm wrong, and at the same time maybe you friend Bob might like to explain to the trade unions how he's magically reducing the fleet and depots, but not cutting any services, some mystery isn't it????, or maybe its because rest breaks are being cut, another Rotala trick, all very exciting, also you friend Bob might like to explain how he';s going to move buses into Bolton with no anti vandal screens on them, when their use is insisted on by the Trade Unions there. Its all starting to look like the ingredients for a strike, before you've even started.

So do explain, this magic in mathematics as to how a fleet can drop from 255 to 200 with no service cuts or redundancies or anything else, and yes you talk rubbish, let me remind you, <"we have no intentions of closing Atherton, we couldn't possibly fit everything into Bolton"> well that was lies before you started, then we had, "We don't possibly want Vantage its losing money hands over theist" Then we've "Oh we are closing Atherton because the contracts have been retained by First that we expected to get" - The only contact of any size was Vantage, so somethings obviously a miss. The other contracts are only school and evening, hardly needing much resources at all. The school work totals about 6 vehicles. So you understand why I can't believe anything your saying about service cuts. I know i've seen it all before with the other operators who promised us the earth when they first came and then delivered nothing except service reductions, your all the same after all.
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(17/07/2019 01:50)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Well you explain the drop in numbers then?

Current Fleet at Bolton 215
Current fleet at Atherton 55

Fleet being taken over from First on loan 125
Fleet being moved to Rusholme (max 50)
= 175 from 215 so that's down 40 before you start
Then we have 35 vehicles that Rotala have stated they are bringing in from elsewhere thats 160 on Bolton's fleet. Then bring in 40 from Atherton thats 200. So that's one hell of a drop from 270 to 200, so without service cuts what is it?, granted 15 vehicles worth of work is moving to that corrugated iron shack at Eccles but that's still down from 255 to 200 that's 55 vehicles down - so please find some reason for it before you start telling me I'm wrong, and at the same time maybe you friend Bob might like to explain to the trade unions how he's magically reducing the fleet and depots, but not cutting any services, some mystery isn't it????, or maybe its because rest breaks are being cut, another Rotala trick, all very exciting, also you friend Bob might like to explain how he';s going to move buses into Bolton with no anti vandal screens on them, when their use is insisted on by the Trade Unions there. Its all starting to look like the ingredients for a strike, before you've even started.

So do explain, this magic in mathematics as to how a fleet can drop from 255 to 200 with no service cuts or redundancies or anything else, and yes you talk rubbish, let me remind you, <"we have no intentions of closing Atherton, we couldn't possibly fit everything into Bolton"> well that was lies before you started, then we had, "We don't possibly want Vantage its losing money hands over theist" Then we've "Oh we are closing Atherton because the contracts have been retained by First that we expected to get" - The only contact of any size was Vantage, so somethings obviously a miss. The other contracts are only school and evening, hardly needing much resources at all. The school work totals about 6 vehicles. So you understand why I can't believe anything your saying about service cuts. I know i've seen it all before with the other operators who promised us the earth when they first came and then delivered nothing except service reductions, your all the same after all.

I do not need to explain or justify anything to you, lose the attitude, you will get much further without it!

Once again, get your facts straight before commenting. You've clearly got an over active imagination that needs to touch base with actual reality sometimes....
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(16/07/2019 19:33)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Show me one example were a Super Depot has improved service? One example were a Super Depot has not declined traffic since it opened?

Sorry if this reply takes the page slightly off-topic,but a super-depot that does seem to have worked is Riverside in Newcastle (replaced 2 depots & took all the routes off a 3rd,with that being left open to do repaints)

Since that has opened:

- The Quaylink network has grown,merging it with the Orbit routes in Gateshead increased passenger numbers as well as extending the Q3 to Great Park at one end plus Wallsend at the other,again helping grow passenger numbers.

- Tyne Tees Express has continued to grow,with new links to a major retail park near Peterlee added fairly recently

- A Number of routes have seen new/refurbished routes plus simplified some networks (Blaydon > Newcastle Corridor being one example)

- Due to the bigger space in the depot,has allowed GNE to gain extra contract services (School routes plus Work services to Team Valley)

- More recently started operations on the Newcastle Open Top Tour (branded Toon Tour)


As someone else mentioned,Gilmoss in Liverpool could be classed as a super-depot for Stagecoach,with them bringing in a large number of deckers over the passed few years to replace Single deckers.
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
I think you're both confusing the legal allocation at Bolton depot with the actual amount of buses currently stationed there. Firstbus have always been poor in changing their allocation.




(17/07/2019 01:50)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Well you explain the drop in numbers then?

Current Fleet at Bolton 215
Current fleet at Atherton 55

Fleet being taken over from First on loan 125
Fleet being moved to Rusholme (max 50)
= 175 from 215 so that's down 40 before you start
Then we have 35 vehicles that Rotala have stated they are bringing in from elsewhere thats 160 on Bolton's fleet. Then bring in 40 from Atherton thats 200. So that's one hell of a drop from 270 to 200, so without service cuts what is it?, granted 15 vehicles worth of work is moving to that corrugated iron shack at Eccles but that's still down from 255 to 200 that's 55 vehicles down - so please find some reason for it before you start telling me I'm wrong, and at the same time maybe you friend Bob might like to explain to the trade unions how he's magically reducing the fleet and depots, but not cutting any services, some mystery isn't it????, or maybe its because rest breaks are being cut, another Rotala trick, all very exciting, also you friend Bob might like to explain how he';s going to move buses into Bolton with no anti vandal screens on them, when their use is insisted on by the Trade Unions there. Its all starting to look like the ingredients for a strike, before you've even started.

So do explain, this magic in mathematics as to how a fleet can drop from 255 to 200 with no service cuts or redundancies or anything else, and yes you talk rubbish, let me remind you, <"we have no intentions of closing Atherton, we couldn't possibly fit everything into Bolton"> well that was lies before you started, then we had, "We don't possibly want Vantage its losing money hands over theist" Then we've "Oh we are closing Atherton because the contracts have been retained by First that we expected to get" - The only contact of any size was Vantage, so somethings obviously a miss. The other contracts are only school and evening, hardly needing much resources at all. The school work totals about 6 vehicles. So you understand why I can't believe anything your saying about service cuts. I know i've seen it all before with the other operators who promised us the earth when they first came and then delivered nothing except service reductions, your all the same after all.
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(18/07/2019 09:03)NorthernCounties Wrote:  I think you're both confusing the legal allocation at Bolton depot with the actual amount of buses currently stationed there. Firstbus have always been poor in changing their allocation.

I've not referred to First Bolton allocation totals, my figures quoted were from day one of the Rotala takeover of Bolton only. The Bolton takeover & Atherton closure are two sperate events that occur a few weeks apart.

The most recent First Bolton fleetlist I can find, has the First Bolton allocation at 203 (last updated 11th July).

Update:

The additional 10 x single deckers being sourced externally used for Rotala can now be confirmed as 10 x 64 Mercedes-Benz Citaro's ex Yourbus.

The first two BD64NBX & NCC are already in DBNW two tone blue base colours, they are being repainted by Yourbus, at their Heanor depot (pictures below)


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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(18/07/2019 09:41)Winston Wrote:  I've not referred to First Bolton allocation totals, my figures quoted were from day one of the Rotala takeover of Bolton only. The Bolton takeover & Atherton closure are two sperate events that occur a few weeks apart.

The most recent First Bolton fleetlist I can find, has the First Bolton allocation at 203 (last updated 11th July).

Update:

The additional 10 x single deckers being sourced externally used for Rotala can now be confirmed as 10 x 64 Mercedes-Benz Citaro's ex Yourbus.

The first two BD64NBX & NCC are already in DBNW two tone blue base colours, they are being repainted by Yourbus, at their Heanor depot (pictures below)

Nice to see Rotala getting more Citaros I really like the 11 plate batch at Preston so it will interesting to compare these 64 plate ones to the 11 plate batch likewise the 15 plates at Blackpool too, how many single deckers are Rotala leasing off First initially?
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RE: Diamond Bus North West
(18/07/2019 15:31)darylyates17 Wrote:  Nice to see Rotala getting more Citaros I really like the 11 plate batch at Preston so it will interesting to compare these 64 plate ones to the 11 plate batch likewise the 15 plates at Blackpool too, how many single deckers are Rotala leasing off First initially?

The 64 plate ones are the same later model as per Blackpool's & Euro 6 (part of the reason they were purchased), the 11 plate Preston ones are obviously the earlier Citaro 0530 design.

The Proposed First rental fleet make-up is *currently* as follows:

1 x B7TL
3 x B9TL
57 x Enviro400's (12 & 14 plate)
64 x B7RLE (55/06/56 plate only)

Fleet numbers not fully confirmed, do not take the above as 100% gospel (as with previous info posted - things can & do change quickly).

Also, 40625 B9TL/Gemini is now in two-tone double deck Diamond livery fully complete.
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