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RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Raawwwrrr! - 23/04/2018 08:16

(23/04/2018 05:40)wirralbus Wrote:  The balance of the partnership on the Chester service was too weighed on the main corridors to First and then Stagecoach. Also with the service 2 the depot at Birkenhead was much too far away when things went wrong with the buses , whereas at the time first then Stagecoach had depots at Rock Ferry and Chester on the line of the route , the straw that broke the camels back was probably the introduction of the X8.

I'd argue that the main faults with the 1/2/X2 for Arriva was pricing.
People would wait for a stagecoach vehicle to come (every 10 to 20 minutes - depending on the inter-working) because the day, weekly and family tickets were much cheaper.

With Stagecoach, you could travel from St Helens or Crossens all the way to Chester and beyond for £3.90, with Arriva, this would require the North West day ticket which they were selling for £5+. Although an extreme distance, the same would apply if you were travelling from Bromborough to Chester. Single fares were also cheaper on Stagecoach vehicles. However the benefit of this only really applies assuming that the passenger hasn't boarded another Arriva vehicle prior to boarding a 1/2/X2, but to counter that, Stagecoach paying passengers then also got the added benefit of the X8.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - chester285 - 23/04/2018 08:19

(22/04/2018 21:27)iMarkeh Wrote:  There are traffic hotspots but they are busy stops. At the Zoo, they should have inspectors and when it is busy traffic wise, get inspectors to move passengers and make buses stop into the park and ride stop and at Cheshire Oaks they could close the Oaks stop (like they do during the light switch on) and send everyone to Stanney Lane and/or Colliseumand turn buses around there.

All McArthur Glen outlets are the same. Not one has a bus lane or any sort of bus priority, not one has a bus station or even a decent bus stop. Cars are always king with McArthur Glen. Bus companies run there because they know how much money can be made. Though the parking spaces are going, that is the point of making a second level on one car park and an extra level on the multi storey isn't it? to allow more parking.

If the Oaks had more transport links, more people would use public transport. Runcorn, Frodsham, Helsby, Liverpool, Birkenhead, Chester. That is it. Plus a once per day Manchester, Leeds, Bradford coach. That is rubbish. GHAs X20 used to look quite busy which obviously served Cheshire Oaks. That is what I think the problem is, not enough places have a regular bus link. Weekends and bank holidays are the busiest days. The 1 is hourly, X8 hourly. That is it. Mold, Buckley, Runcorn etc all have no link Sundays or bank holidays. Once things like that are sorted and more places have transport links, that is what will change people's ways.

Though that sounds like a good call, the problem is blacons only need 4 buses. You could do Blacons and Saltney (4 Blacons, 4 Saltney). Enviros would work well on the SPs though as well as darts are too slow. The enviros have kickdown and get round the route much faster. That is another 3. Chester will take 11. All the others can go elsewhere haha. Could route 17 be a good call though from Gillmoss??? Covers PVR + a few spares. It is the most frequent route in that depot and isn't tied into an QBP so no competition. It is a longish route as well. GOLD doesn't work as well on local routes as USB will only get your phone upto like 10% before you get off and wifi is now standard on most buses. The only feature then is the seats.... I don't know many people who change their travelling habits based on the seats.

I could also see the Enviros going onto the 41/42s. That is another busy route (Mon-Fri). It means they don't have to mess around as well moving around buses and makes things easier for maintenance and stuff as Rock Ferry drivers and engineers know the buses already so saves time in that respect (no training for familiarisation).

The difference with the 471/472 compared to the 2s is that each company runs each way round a somewhat circular (471 in 472 out or vice versa). I know both companies run both ways as it swaps in the evening but the point is that you would get whichever bus is quickest, you wouldn't go 'through' Heswall just to get a cheaper bus. On the 2s as well, you have to remember south of Hooton, Arriva had nothing except for the 2 and X2. Stagecoach also ran the X2 but had the 1 as well which has always been a more popular route. Plus if I remember rightly, Stagecoach had an extra bus or two on the route compared to Arriva.

Could you imagine the uproar on social media regarding visitors to the zoo and Cheshire oaks having to walk further than normal to get to and from the bus than at present I agree that both destinations are a nightmare at busy times, both attractions need a separate entrance and exit for just vehicles which is accessed using a bus lane, unfortunately the set up around the zoo makes this impossible with the A41 only being a single lane carriageway. it’s a shame the M53 isn’t a 3 laned motorway in that part as an extra junction into the back of the oaks would alleviate some of the problems with the main entrances and exits which should help with the services running more or less to schedule


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - chester285 - 23/04/2018 09:45

47035 is currently at chester


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 23/04/2018 12:00

(23/04/2018 05:40)wirralbus Wrote:  The balance of the partnership on the Chester service was too weighed on the main corridors to First and then Stagecoach. Also with the service 2 the depot at Birkenhead was much too far away when things went wrong with the buses , whereas at the time first then Stagecoach had depots at Rock Ferry and Chester on the line of the route , the straw that broke the camels back was probably the introduction of the X8.
I was thinking about the depot side of things and I know they aren't as close but Arriva had depots at both ends though as far as I know, Chester wasn't ever utilised for spares though it would have been an option. I don't think Stagecoach used the Chester depot either for spares on the 1/2 as it was all RF operated, the 2 only moved into Chester when they took over the route properly.

The X8 would certainly be a contributing factor but the X8 at that time didn't serve many stops. It was literally Hoole, Cheshire Oaks, Eport and about 3 stops on the wirral. That was about it. As time has gone on, a lot more stops have been added. I think it was a factor of everything that has been mentioned. Gradually declining usage as Stagecoach were cheaper, a few less passengers on the Wirral section due to the X8. The areas around Ellesmere Port never warranted every 20 minutes service either like Hope Farm and Overpool. Most people used the X2 as well with that being every 30 minutes at the time. Now the X2 is down slightly, the 2s are getting a few more people in my opinion. First did it best though with the 3. That used to look well used.

(23/04/2018 08:13)chester285 Wrote:  Could you imagine the uproar on social media regarding visitors to the zoo and Cheshire oaks having to walk further than normal to get to and from the bus than at present I agree that both destinations are a nightmare at busy times, both attractions need a separate entrance and exit for just vehicles which is accessed using a bus lane, unfortunately the set up around the zoo makes this impossible with the A41 only being a single lane carriageway. it’s a shame the M53 isn’t a 3 laned motorway in that part as an extra junction into the back of the oaks would alleviate some of the problems with the main entrances and exits which should help with services
They have to think though, they sit in the queue for 10-60 minutes or they walk for 5 minutes and only spend 5-30 minutes in a queue. Annoying yes but works. If you look on google maps, right at the back near the new Islands section, there is part just off the A41 which would suit a bus terminus Opposite Demege lane. All they need is to make an entrance there but that was the issue with the pedestrian entrance that not enough people used it so it got closed. One entrance means less staff needed. I do think that area should be a bus stop or two though. It is on the main road and not affected by the general zoo traffic (apart from when it backs up onto the A41 but the bus would be stuck in that regardless). It also means journey times could be reduced by a few minutes with it not having to go right into the zoo and just 'dipping in'.

Cheshire Oaks is a lot harder to work out in that there are service roads and blocked entrances but a bus couldn't comfortably maneuver the turns or it would increase the journey time. The only way Cheshire Oaks could have less traffic is by actively encouraging public transport use and introducing new bus routes especially later at night for films, bowling and events. The light switch on is one of the busiest nights at Cheshire Oaks. What buses are available at finishing time? number 1..... That is it. Later buses are the key to Cheshire Oaks public transport. IF you want to go there or come home after 6.30pm, good luck. X2 has finished, X8 is only into Chester, 5s have stopped. That is the issue with it. That is where Stagecoach need to review really. much later buses on all routes. Hopefully the new bridge into Stanney will relieve a bit of the congestion as people won't be driving 5 minutes round the corner or paying silly prices on Stagecoach, it will be a 2 minute walk. Also some people will park on Stanney and walk through to avoid traffic but it is no way going to resolve the issue. To resolve the issue, you need 'no car' lanes like Newcastle has but do enough buses, coaches and delivery trucks use the roads to warrant a lane just for those vehicles.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - busesdotorg1920x - 23/04/2018 16:56

(22/04/2018 18:31)Busguy12 Wrote:  The golds on the 471/2 have been vandalised, the usb sockets ripped out, writing on the seats, if i was stagecoach I would pull them off the service

There should be no question about this - if new buses are vandalised pull them off the route immediately and put Tridents or bog standard Enviro400s on, say they will be off for the immediate future due to vandalism. This happened a few years ago in Gloucester on the 10, I believe it is fine now?


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - childwallblues - 23/04/2018 17:16

Arriva have done this in Liverpool on the 79.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Quackdave - 23/04/2018 18:14

(23/04/2018 16:56)busesdotorg1920x Wrote:  There should be no question about this - if new buses are vandalised pull them off the route immediately

That's a point of view, and possibly a justifiable one on the basis that it's the least effort. But there most certainly should be a question. The alternative point of view is that we should not give in to criminals, but rather should put a bit of effort in to catching them and punishing them rather than just giving up and letting them win.

I wonder if anyone has been in contact with the Travelsafe team? There's a dedicated team of a sergeant and 9 PCSOs, a joint agency initiative between Merseytravel and Merseyside Police whose role is to reduce crime and anti-social behaviour on the public transport network. I imagine they could give that route extra attention if it warrants it.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - clarkethomas94 - 24/04/2018 18:30

A few of gillmoss' enviro 300 are at chester at present. 27902,5 and 25 being 3 of them.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - chester285 - 24/04/2018 19:52

(24/04/2018 18:30)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  A few of gillmoss' enviro 300 are at chester at present. 27902,5 and 25 being 3 of them.

Aren’t these swaps for the darts which went to Gilmoss


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - PAUL2511 - 24/04/2018 21:29

(24/04/2018 19:52)chester285 Wrote:  Aren’t these swaps for the darts which went to Gilmoss

Seen 27902 today