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RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 01/03/2018 01:37

Personally I would keep the 1 as it is. Everyone has known for a long time about the 1 being the bus to the Zoo. People don't even think of the X8. The thing is, there is a massive market for people from Chester and Ellesmere Port into Liverpool. There are 3 key areas there that you need to serve. The 1 is the same route it has been for years (even the upcoming change is only very slight) and it works so I think unless anything major were to happen, it will remain as it is. There is enough recovery time in the timetable to accommodate traffic (Quite a few trips end up stopping regularly along the route for a few minutes as they have become early).

Any changes should be the X8. Serving Birkenhead, though it sounds good, it would be useless and just add too much time. Remove the Zoo from the X8, make it go back fast from Hoole to Cheshire Oaks (but leave the route flexible so if traffic is on the M53, drivers can divert via Backford and vice versa). Cheshire Oaks is a good market from Chester but the X8 is less often and is scheduled to take longer than GOLD 1. Obviously removing Chester Zoo makes the whole X8 route from Cheshire Oaks north 10 minutes quicker. Many of the earlier X8s sit at the zoo for 3-4 minutes because they are somehow really early (meaning increased journey times which are unnecessary). Also serving the zoo at daft times like 6.15am, 7.15am (commuter times) definitely doesn't help.
The only way I would agree to serving Birkenhead is if it ran fast from Eport but then it runs straight past Clatterbridge (people would complain it doesn't go in to that roundabout bus stop for the sake of an extra 2 minutes) and through Higher Bebbington/Egerton Park (residents in these areas would complain for extra stops and if they were introduced, Arriva would moan that Stagecoach are competition).

I think the best option for the X8 to make it as viable as possible is simply remove the Zoo and make it non stop from Eport to Liverpool via M53 (cutting another few minutes from the journey time). If the X8 didn't serve Cheshire Oaks, it would be another time saver but you can't cut out every little stop or it will end up very useless.

To back up the X8 moving away from the Zoo, I would (as said previously), extend GOLD 1. Then for people at the rail station, there is an enhanced service to the zoo and if needed in peak summer time, dupes can be added. I (and many residents around Ellesmere Port) would love for there to be more faster buses to Chester.

In short, my opinion for short term changes are:
Make X8 non stop from Hoole to Cheshire Oaks (and preferable make it non stop from Eport - Liverpool but unlikely)
Extend the GOLD 1 to Chester Rail Station (enhancing services to the zoo & making up for the loss of the X8)
Renumber the X2 to 36 (X2 is no longer Xpress as it runs onwards to Runcorn etc. Number makes it sound much faster than it is)
Extend Eport route 6 to Chester hourly with the short circular numbered 6A (Opposite to 36(X2) giving half hourly fast bus and improving through connections)
Create a service down the A41. It has been much requested around Ellesmere Port. I don't know where the demand is properly but it makes sense in that it takes 50 minutes from Great Sutton to Chester but driving it takes about half that (X8 could be that bus but I think Eport town Centre is a bit too valuable for it (for some unknown reason).


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Valandil - 01/03/2018 11:29

I also think that the 1 is fine as a 'slow' service via pretty much every possible estate, connecting with the larger centres, from which fast onward connections are then possible.
Why the 1 should be Gold though I don't know - it reduces the number of seats on board and I'd have thought the X8 would be much better as a signature Gold route.

I think that there would be quite a market for a fast Birkenhead to Cheshire Oaks / Ellesmere Port / Chester service, and vice versa.
This could reduce Birkenhead to Chester from around 1 and a half hours (current) by around 20 minutes, with further reductions possible if the X8 were to omit Chester Zoo, Hoole etc.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 01/03/2018 20:27

(01/03/2018 11:29)Valandil Wrote:  I also think that the 1 is fine as a 'slow' service via pretty much every possible estate, connecting with the larger centres, from which fast onward connections are then possible.
Why the 1 should be Gold though I don't know - it reduces the number of seats on board and I'd have thought the X8 would be much better as a signature Gold route.

I think that there would be quite a market for a fast Birkenhead to Cheshire Oaks / Ellesmere Port / Chester service, and vice versa.
This could reduce Birkenhead to Chester from around 1 and a half hours (current) by around 20 minutes, with further reductions possible if the X8 were to omit Chester Zoo, Hoole etc.

With the many areas the 1 serves, it is better for it to be GOLD. It encourages travel and obviously compared to the X8, it serves areas with bigger markets into Liverpool. For example Liverpool to Birkenhead, Rock Ferry and New Ferry. Also the local travel around Ellesmere Port and Chester. It encourages bus travel.
The X8 firstly has the same features anyway and secondly, it's markets are more focussed on faster travel. The gold brand (like Arriva Sapphire and Max) is about encouraging more local bus travel and not longer distance express type routes.

With regard to Birkenhead, you may see differently but I am 90% sure there is not a Birkenhead to anywhere south of the Wirral. The 1 and 2 both do well in Birkenhead because of the Birkenhead to Liverpool market (and its connections with the 38/41/42 at Birkenhead) and because of the stops from south wirral into Birkenhead.
Also, you forget, the major markets are Ellesmere Port and Chester to Liverpool. Regardless of the time it decreases for people around Birkenhead, the areas the service was set up to help then have their journey time increased. As daft as it seems by going straight past Birkenhead, it gets a lot more passengers. Everyone from south wales who could use their car would have a much faster trip in the car compared to the bus. Going via Birkenhead has too many disadvantages, increased journey times for many, would have to use stop 7 which is already too heavily used and stop 6 on the way back which is also very busy with many buses.Then add on it almost completely removes the whole 'express' aspect.

It would never work and for the few passengers they would gain, they would lose many many more. The trip time is too long as it is. To encourage people to use the bus over the train and car, it needs to have a very comparable journey time. 1h 20 minutes on the bus does not compare in any way to near 45 minutes on the train or driving. The quicker the bus is, the more people will use it. As I have said, the big markets are where it needs to serve and have the lowest time possible. Adding Birkenhead won't do anyone any favours. Especially not the existing passengers which it would lose many of by simple serving Birkenhead.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - clarkethomas94 - 01/03/2018 20:36

The 1 doesnt need to go to the railway station. THE END. Its long enough as it is. The X8 provides a fast link and a cheaper alternative than the train to liverpool and calls at the key areas. Most people get on the X8 from chester station and go to the zoo, something which they can not do on the 1. The X8 doesnt need to serve birkenhead. There are enough buses that service birkenhead bus station and it is very easy for passengers to change buses at either bolton road/shore drive or magazine road. What we have here is a debate that is just in dream land. The X8 does what it needs to..it provides a quick link from liverpool to the oaks, provides fast limited stop route ellesmere port to liverpool and it serves chester railway station. There are people actually getting on the bus at ellesmere port railway station and buying the day ticket instead of going by train, but using the car park as a park and ride. If anything in my opinion the 2 shouldn't go to liverpool. it should go chester to ellesmere port the way it does but maybe swing into capenhurst. You have the technology centre over the bridge and no bus services. It was either the 25 or the 5 that used to run from the port to the wirral 100 pub and swing round at the roundabout before capenhurst station. It would also provide an alternative to the train to chester considering the trains on a monday-saturday only stop at capenhurst every half an hour.

In bus movements news its welcome back to 18002 the ex scotland trident which has spent the last 6 months at gillmoss in the pool. It arrived yesterday along with 19034. 2 MAN'S at chester 24173 and 24156. these are covering repaints, breakdowns and accident damaged vehicles.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - chester285 - 01/03/2018 21:06

(01/03/2018 20:36)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  The 1 doesnt need to go to the railway station. THE END. Its long enough as it is. The X8 provides a fast link and a cheaper alternative than the train to liverpool and calls at the key areas. Most people get on the X8 from chester station and go to the zoo, something which they can not do on the 1. The X8 doesnt need to serve birkenhead. There are enough buses that service birkenhead bus station and it is very easy for passengers to change buses at either bolton road/shore drive or magazine road. What we have here is a debate that is just in dream land. The X8 does what it needs to..it provides a quick link from liverpool to the oaks, provides fast limited stop route ellesmere port to liverpool and it serves chester railway station. There are people actually getting on the bus at ellesmere port railway station and buying the day ticket instead of going by train, but using the car park as a park and ride. If anything in my opinion the 2 shouldn't go to liverpool. it should go chester to ellesmere port the way it does but maybe swing into capenhurst. You have the technology centre over the bridge and no bus services. It was either the 25 or the 5 that used to run from the port to the wirral 100 pub and swing round at the roundabout before capenhurst station. It would also provide an alternative to the train to chester considering the trains on a monday-saturday only stop at capenhurst every half an hour.

In bus movements news its welcome back to 18002 the ex scotland trident which has spent the last 6 months at gillmoss in the pool. It arrived yesterday along with 19034. 2 MAN'S at chester 24173 and 24156. these are covering repaints, breakdowns and accident damaged vehicles.

Well Said!


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Valandil - 01/03/2018 21:22

(01/03/2018 21:06)chester285 Wrote:  Well Said!

Maybe some good points, but perhaps could have been phrased more politely.
We are dealing with different opinions here, not absolute truths.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - T42 PVM - 01/03/2018 21:48

(01/03/2018 20:36)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  The 1 doesnt need to go to the railway station. THE END. Its long enough as it is. The X8 provides a fast link and a cheaper alternative than the train to liverpool and calls at the key areas. Most people get on the X8 from chester station and go to the zoo, something which they can not do on the 1. The X8 doesnt need to serve birkenhead. There are enough buses that service birkenhead bus station and it is very easy for passengers to change buses at either bolton road/shore drive or magazine road. What we have here is a debate that is just in dream land. The X8 does what it needs to..it provides a quick link from liverpool to the oaks, provides fast limited stop route ellesmere port to liverpool and it serves chester railway station. There are people actually getting on the bus at ellesmere port railway station and buying the day ticket instead of going by train, but using the car park as a park and ride. If anything in my opinion the 2 shouldn't go to liverpool. it should go chester to ellesmere port the way it does but maybe swing into capenhurst. You have the technology centre over the bridge and no bus services. It was either the 25 or the 5 that used to run from the port to the wirral 100 pub and swing round at the roundabout before capenhurst station. It would also provide an alternative to the train to chester considering the trains on a monday-saturday only stop at capenhurst every half an hour.

In bus movements news its welcome back to 18002 the ex scotland trident which has spent the last 6 months at gillmoss in the pool. It arrived yesterday along with 19034. 2 MAN'S at chester 24173 and 24156. these are covering repaints, breakdowns and accident damaged vehicles.

Cant agree more, Some people need to stop posting daft route ideas.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Brickmill - 01/03/2018 22:15

(01/03/2018 20:36)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  In bus movements news its welcome back to 18002 the ex scotland trident which has spent the last 6 months at gillmoss in the pool. It arrived yesterday along with 19034. 2 MAN'S at chester 24173 and 24156. these are covering repaints, breakdowns and accident damaged vehicles.

Nearly missed this amongst the route debate. Is this Chester or Rock Ferry receiving 18002 & 19034 and at the risk of being pedantic, if Chester, is it literally 6 months (or more) that 18002 has been away. I ask because I was in Chester in early September (before I joined this forum) and just before walking up to the depot around 1330, I saw an u/id ALX heading southbound along the dual carriageway outside the Interchange. About an hour or 90 minutes later, it headed back up the dual carriageway towards the depot, but with a large number of passengers - most of which looked like senior citizens. The only thing I can remember about the bus was a larger than normal yellow "school bus" sign in the rear window. Was this 18002 or a Trident from another MSL depot?


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 01/03/2018 22:20

(01/03/2018 20:36)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  The 1 doesnt need to go to the railway station. THE END. Its long enough as it is. The X8 provides a fast link and a cheaper alternative than the train to liverpool and calls at the key areas. Most people get on the X8 from chester station and go to the zoo, something which they can not do on the 1. The X8 doesnt need to serve birkenhead. There are enough buses that service birkenhead bus station and it is very easy for passengers to change buses at either bolton road/shore drive or magazine road. What we have here is a debate that is just in dream land. The X8 does what it needs to..it provides a quick link from liverpool to the oaks, provides fast limited stop route ellesmere port to liverpool and it serves chester railway station. There are people actually getting on the bus at ellesmere port railway station and buying the day ticket instead of going by train, but using the car park as a park and ride. If anything in my opinion the 2 shouldn't go to liverpool. it should go chester to ellesmere port the way it does but maybe swing into capenhurst. You have the technology centre over the bridge and no bus services. It was either the 25 or the 5 that used to run from the port to the wirral 100 pub and swing round at the roundabout before capenhurst station. It would also provide an alternative to the train to chester considering the trains on a monday-saturday only stop at capenhurst every half an hour.

In bus movements news its welcome back to 18002 the ex scotland trident which has spent the last 6 months at gillmoss in the pool. It arrived yesterday along with 19034. 2 MAN'S at chester 24173 and 24156. these are covering repaints, breakdowns and accident damaged vehicles.

Well, if you read what I said properly, I was suggesting removing the X8 from the Zoo and so extending the 1 would act only as a replacement for Chester station - Chester Zoo passengers. It wasn't meant to serve any other markets. Merely only a suggestion to ease suggestion of removing the X8 from Chester Zoo.

I do think Capenhurst would be a good stop. there is even a somewhat turning circle near Capenhurst Train Station. Bit tight in it's current form but remove that kerby bit and that could be a bus stop. And bus down the A41 from Hooton into Chester (whether the bus starts at Hooton or is extended north, it is irrelevant) as journey times using public transport from Little Sutton and Great Sutton into Chester are very high compared to that of driving. Extending into Capenhurst is only needed at shift times and would be useless at any other time. The village is too small. Maybe compromise and stop in the Wirral 100 lay-by and turn around there back to the lights.

Service 2 I think does well with 'through' passengers. Passengers around Bebbington and Tranmere I think appreciate and do use the 2 through to Liverpool. Cutting it would affect those numbers and would basically mean the 2 is useless north of Port Sunlight as the 38 already operates.

Now obviously as no body on these forums is allowed an opinion, I will end here. I wouldn't want anyone to get their knickers in a twist over other peoples OPINION.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Valandil - 01/03/2018 22:29

(01/03/2018 22:20)iMarkeh Wrote:  Now obviously as no body on these forums is allowed an opinion, I will end here. I wouldn't want anyone to get their knickers in a twist over other peoples OPINION.

Some people on here are allowed opinions! Just not everybody Smile
This is a 'meritocracy' where a select group of people decide which contributions have merit according to their own no doubt superior whims.