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RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 21/02/2018 10:03

(20/02/2018 08:31)iMarkeh Wrote:  10886 gold decker is out again on route 2. Left Chester 08:27

https://t.co/Vchv0PLzAa - new 5/5a timetable. Still not a standard timetable and the Stanney 5A is a right mess. Route 5 now takes an extra 15 minutes.
Both routes interwork with PVR 3

I can't see this working. The whole reason the SPs don't work fully at the minute is that the times change every hour. How hard is it to have a route with 55 minutes running time each way, run hourly. Pvr 2. It isn't rocket science. It is completely doable and would get loads more passengers. Messing around with times each hour puts people off. I don't see why no one realises that.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - YN05 WKE - 21/02/2018 14:55

(21/02/2018 10:03)iMarkeh Wrote:  https://t.co/Vchv0PLzAa - new 5/5a timetable. Still not a standard timetable and the Stanney 5A is a right mess. Route 5 now takes an extra 15 minutes.
Both routes interwork with PVR 3

I can't see this working. The whole reason the SPs don't work fully at the minute is that the times change every hour. How hard is it to have a route with 55 minutes running time each way, run hourly. Pvr 2. It isn't rocket science. It is completely doable and would get loads more passengers. Messing around with times each hour puts people off. I don't see why no one realises that.

I believe the 5A and 6 will interwork and 5 be standalone but 5A been added to 5 times not sure how true until new 6 times appear


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 21/02/2018 17:36

(21/02/2018 14:55)E208 WBG Wrote:  I believe the 5A and 6 will interwork and 5 be standalone but 5A been added to 5 times not sure how true until new 6 times appear

You only have to look at the times. Unless the 6 is going to have random times, it will not interwork with the 6. The 5 gets into Ellesmere Port and within 5-10 minutes of it arrving, a 5A goes out, comes back conveniently just before a 5 is due out. Either that or the 5s are going to have 30 minutes sat around Ellesmere Port every trip which I can't see happening. The 6 won't be stupid surely. A running time of 32 minutes would say to me the 6 will go down to every 40 mins or RF will keep using 2 buses making it every 20 (GHA found it viable and Stagecoach ran their 6 to Little Sutton as well when it interworked with the X2 so possible this is the outcome and Stanney is not busy enough to increase frequency)


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - clarkethomas94 - 21/02/2018 19:42

(21/02/2018 10:03)iMarkeh Wrote:  https://t.co/Vchv0PLzAa - new 5/5a timetable. Still not a standard timetable and the Stanney 5A is a right mess. Route 5 now takes an extra 15 minutes.
Both routes interwork with PVR 3

I can't see this working. The whole reason the SPs don't work fully at the minute is that the times change every hour. How hard is it to have a route with 55 minutes running time each way, run hourly. Pvr 2. It isn't rocket science. It is completely doable and would get loads more passengers. Messing around with times each hour puts people off. I don't see why no one realises that.

No the reason the SP's don't work at the minute is because the timings are too tight. You simply can not go from the port to mold via cheshire oaks and deeside industrial estate in an hour. If you look at the timetable at the minute it gives it 5 minutes to get to the oaks from the port (X8,1 and X2 get 8), 28 minutes from the port to asda queensferry. You only have to lose time at cheshire oaks and the A5117 during rush hour and even during the day up towards costco still gets quite busy. Then theres the industrial park. There's not enough time to get round there. I suggest you go on an SP and do the full round trip then report back how long it took you and then we'll see if your theory stands up. Have a look at the timetable for the timing points. 10 minutes to get from industrial estate to cheshire oaks? You struggle doing that in a car let alone a knackered old dart.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - YN05 WKE - 21/02/2018 21:22

(21/02/2018 19:42)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  No the reason the SP's don't work at the minute is because the timings are too tight. You simply can not go from the port to mold via cheshire oaks and deeside industrial estate in an hour. If you look at the timetable at the minute it gives it 5 minutes to get to the oaks from the port (X8,1 and X2 get 8), 28 minutes from the port to asda queensferry. You only have to lose time at cheshire oaks and the A5117 during rush hour and even during the day up towards costco still gets quite busy. Then theres the industrial park. There's not enough time to get round there. I suggest you go on an SP and do the full round trip then report back how long it took you and then we'll see if your theory stands up. Have a look at the timetable for the timing points. 10 minutes to get from industrial estate to cheshire oaks? You struggle doing that in a car let alone a knackered old dart.

Tom I second that haven drove the route several times In service its not viable


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 23/02/2018 09:38

(21/02/2018 19:42)clarkethomas94 Wrote:  No the reason the SP's don't work at the minute is because the timings are too tight. You simply can not go from the port to mold via cheshire oaks and deeside industrial estate in an hour. If you look at the timetable at the minute it gives it 5 minutes to get to the oaks from the port (X8,1 and X2 get 8), 28 minutes from the port to asda queensferry. You only have to lose time at cheshire oaks and the A5117 during rush hour and even during the day up towards costco still gets quite busy. Then theres the industrial park. There's not enough time to get round there. I suggest you go on an SP and do the full round trip then report back how long it took you and then we'll see if your theory stands up. Have a look at the timetable for the timing points. 10 minutes to get from industrial estate to cheshire oaks? You struggle doing that in a car let alone a knackered old dart.

The driver I had seemed to be alright. I jumped on it when it first started and did a full day on then about 3-4 times I have got the 07:23ish from Mold and the driver was always on-time in and out. And always got me to Buckley on-time. Stagecoach have had the route for a long time so it can't be that bad or they would have thrown in extra time a long time before now. Some times are ambitious to say the least but some give a tiny bit too much time.

Looking at the timetable and comparing it to what you say, it is only the SP1 affected. And that has a running time of 52 minutes. Increase that to 56 and then throw the extra few minutes in. It isn't a lot but it is better. All of the running times per trip are different so I am not too sure what is most correct. Even if you extended the SPs to 1 hour end to end.

10:00 leave Mold
11:00 Arr Ellesmere Port
11:05 Stanney 6
11:35 Stanney 6
11:55 leave EPort
12:55 arr Mold

This works and keeps half hourly on the 6, lots of extra time for the SPs (10-5 minutes) and incorporates the Stanney 6. It is a little tight in Ellesmere Port giving 2 minutes between the Stanney 6 and SP but it should work with the it having lots of time overall.

Not saying they have to take on my example but I am making the point it is possible to run the SPs at regular intervals and it doesn't need stupid gaps.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - CTL45 - 23/02/2018 18:44

If it was feasible to keep it clockface then it would be, unfortunately it isn't feasible and any attempt would obviously introduce reliability issues, so what has been registered is the best that can be offered given the circumstances.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 24/02/2018 16:26

(23/02/2018 18:44)CTL45 Wrote:  If it was feasible to keep it clockface then it would be, unfortunately it isn't feasible and any attempt would obviously introduce reliability issues, so what has been registered is the best that can be offered given the circumstances.

I have just given an example as to how it could be done. The new route 5 takes 1h 12 mins. Take off 10 minutes because of the route around stanney (17 mins from COaks to EPort via Stanney, 7 mins if it were direct). That makes it only 1h 2 minutes. That is still doable on the example I gave. Very tight but doable. Drop a minute or two off the new 5 times, you got the hour. It doesn't matter what time it leaves Eport, the point was the journey times, it is possible to just make it round an SP, do 2 trips on the 6, then back out on SPs.

I don't know about you but I would be pretty cheesed off that my regular half hourly bus is being replaced with quite literally random times. (08:42, 09:33, 09:54, 10:18). Passengers on the SP are somewhat used to it but it isn't right and heavily discourages passengers. It is the sort a timetable independants and newbies would create. No one with any sense would create such a timetable. You should make it as standard as possible (peak times excluded) and then link it with another route depending on how much time is remaining obviously before it must return. Just look at the times. Stanney can't be that bad passenger wise to warrant infrequent timings.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - CTL45 - 24/02/2018 22:08

(24/02/2018 16:26)iMarkeh Wrote:  I have just given an example as to how it could be done. The new route 5 takes 1h 12 mins. Take off 10 minutes because of the route around stanney (17 mins from COaks to EPort via Stanney, 7 mins if it were direct). That makes it only 1h 2 minutes. That is still doable on the example I gave. Very tight but doable.
You've answered your own question, it's just too tight. Cheshire Oaks and Deeside are way too unpredictable traffic wise for a very tight timetable to even be considered. If there was more money available it could be better, but there isn't...


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 25/02/2018 00:09

(24/02/2018 22:08)CTL45 Wrote:  You've answered your own question, it's just too tight. Cheshire Oaks and Deeside are way too unpredictable traffic wise for a very tight timetable to even be considered. If there was more money available it could be better, but there isn't...

It is a little tight using the new times using the same thing I said but I don't think it needs so long. I think you could cut off Stanney (it would have half hourly on the 5A) and i'm sure you could cut 2 mins from somewhere to make it exactly 1 hour. Cheshire Oaks needs to be sorted quickly. With 14 buses per hour, there needs to be a bit more bus priority. Maybe if the SPs didn't serve Blue Planet on the way to Mold, that could cut a minute. 2nd exit out of Cheshire Oaks then turn right past the Harvester. Whenever there are big issues around Cheshire Oaks, that part from Sainsburys roundabout upto Coliseum roundabout is the busiest. Head out towards the motorway, you are laughing and it isn't clear but much quicker. X8 should be the same.

Another thing I personally would do is not serve New Brighton, it already has the 4s. If possible I would run along the main road from the end of Nant Mawr but I think Mercia Drive residents would kick off.


On a side note while talking about Deeside, Every Chester 9/X9 is diverted into Deeside Industrial Estate. From April, Stagecoach will have the SP (5), 9/x9 and the DB4 into the industrial estate. There must be more later shifts that are uncovered. The D1/2/3 run really late compared to Stagecoach so I wonder if there are later shifts which could be money makers if Stagecoach found them. Also extra buses into Chester probably to cover dead millage. The early 9 is confusing in that is it 5 minutes before the DB4. When Stagecoach take that over in April, it will be really confusing having 2 services to the industrial estate within 5 minutes taking about the same amount of time. Idk who suggested the idea (FCC or Stagecoach) but it is an interesting move. Could FCC be about to withdraw a little bit of funding from the D services (no point in loads of buses going the same way).