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RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - trixmax2000 - 07/08/2016 16:53

(07/08/2016 13:06)telf23 Wrote:  I would love to see some deckers in Runcorn, quite a few services could really benefit from them. The old busway bridges are so worn down now a days and most of the places where they cross also have a crossing on the road itself, so I don't actually know why the council have kept them up.

I don't ever recall a direct link between St Helens and Runcorn either. It's not really a route that I think would work either imo.

A possible way stagecoach could extend into Runcorn is maybe extending their evening 21 service and mirror Arriva's daytime service. And maybe introduce a Sunday service too. Sunday services are few and far between in Runcorn. 3 of the 5 services go through to Liverpool, all leaving within 5 minutes of each other and 30 min intervals and the other 2 serve Warrington. I think a Sunday service into Chester would get some good patronage if it was at a reasonable frequency. (HT 31 service at every 2 hours (3 trips) seemed a little pointless to me)

The was a link from Runcorn to St Helens in the early 1990's the route number been 20/20B starting on the Busway the 20 would go via Halton Lodge with the 20B via Beechwood, they would follow the same route via Weston Point then Widnes Halton View and Bold Heath then Clock Face and New Street, there was one working that would swop the East Lance Dart around 10am for a ex WMPTE Metrobus.
North Western did a deal with MTL to end the service in exchange for some thing or other,

As for the evening 21 this is a Cheshire West contract and up to a few years ago it did run to Runcorn plus on a Sunday Halton Transport worked this,

It also went to Warrington via Moore the contact then joint with Cheshire CC Halton Council and Warrington these two decided not to renew the contact,

As for the Sunday services in Runcorn Arriva services are all commercial and do and do not receive any funding


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Metroline1511 - 07/08/2016 18:47

I take your points above about why the X1 could not accommodate double-deckers along the Runcorn Busway, and why a Runcorn - Altrincham route would be unlikely to be viable through low demand.

Coming back to Chester & Wirral, and I can see a partial remedy. In Manchester, Ashton recently lost routes 168/69 to sharston and Hyde Road route 197 to Stockport.

So, routes 471/72 could move Rock Ferry to Gillmoss, route 10a Gillmoss to Wigan, route 34 Wigan to Hyde Road, and route 201 or 204 Hyde Road to Ashton. Simples, as the Meerkats would say!


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Raawwwrrr! - 07/08/2016 19:03

(07/08/2016 18:47)Metroline1511 Wrote:  Coming back to Chester & Wirral, and I can see a partial remedy. In Manchester, Ashton recently lost routes 168/69 to sharston and Hyde Road route 197 to Stockport.

So, routes 471/72 could move Rock Ferry to Gillmoss, route 10a Gillmoss to Wigan, route 34 Wigan to Hyde Road, and route 201 or 204 Hyde Road to Ashton. Simples, as the Meerkats would say!

Not quite.
Gilmoss is a very large depot with a large amount of storage (because Stagecoach have much lower PVR than when they acquired it, and also buses are parked in rows rather than on 45 degree angles like it was originally designed), if needs be both the 471/472 and 10A could stay there happily.

The dead mileage of the 197 moving to Stockport depot is barely 200 yards. The dead mileage from Gilmoss to Liverpool is 6 miles, and the dead mileage to Heswall around 16.
Moving routes such as the 10A to Wigan would mean the service would need to transfer licences not to mention the amount of dead mileage when there is a breakdown or bus needs replacing


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Metroline1511 - 07/08/2016 19:06

(07/08/2016 19:03)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  Not quite.
Gillmoss is a very large depot with a large amount of storage (because Stagecoach have much lower PVR than when they acquired it, and also buses are parked in rows rather than on 45 degree angles like it was originally designed), if needs be both the 471/472 and 10A could stay there happily.

The dead mileage of the 197 moving to Stockport depot is barely 200 yards. The dead mileage from Gillmoss to Liverpool is 6 miles, and the dead mileage to Heswall around 16.
Moving routes such as the 10A to Wigan would mean the service would need to transfer licences not to mention the amount of dead mileage when there is a breakdown or bus needs replacing

I suggested routes 471/72 as they do not go all that near Rock Ferry. With GM being as large as you say, they could even accommodate other Liverpool - Wirral routes, potentially routes 1, 2 & X8 without cascading any work east.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - mbonwick - 07/08/2016 20:17

(07/08/2016 19:03)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  Not quite.
Gillmoss is a very large depot with a large amount of storage (because Stagecoach have much lower PVR than when they acquired it)

PVR at GM is actually back to roughly what it was when GTL was aquired - around 140. From a quick glance at my fleetcards, it looks to have peaked around 160 and dropped back since.
Probably worth pointing out that Aintree depot was still open in 2006 however.

The overall fleet allocated to GM is smaller now than in 2006 though, as there are fewer spares.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Raawwwrrr! - 07/08/2016 20:28

(07/08/2016 20:17)mbonwick Wrote:  The overall fleet allocated to GM is smaller now than in 2006 though, as there are fewer spares.

... and the fleet is more roadworthy Laugh


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Barney - 07/08/2016 20:31

(07/08/2016 19:06)Metroline1511 Wrote:  I suggested routes 471/72 as they do not go all that near Rock Ferry. With GM being as large as you say, they could even accommodate other Liverpool - Wirral routes, potentially routes 1, 2 & X8 without cascading any work east.

Some interesting lateral thinking here. As regards the dead mileage from/to Gillmoss for the 471/2, there's no reason why these buses couldn't operate in service between Liverpool and Gillmoss and provide a link between Aintree and Arrowe Park hospitals. With the exception of Avon's services, there are no cross-river services that operate beyond Liverpool city centre.

The alternative is for Stagecoach to find a larger site. Perhaps it could demolish the houses built on the land Crosville sold about twenty years ago when it was in the process of down-sizing at RF. I always thought that was a silly decision but I suppose it made financial sense at the time.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - telf23 - 07/08/2016 22:24

(07/08/2016 16:53)trixmax2000 Wrote:  The was a link from Runcorn to St Helens in the early 1990's the route number been 20/20B starting on the Busway the 20 would go via Halton Lodge with the 20B via Beechwood, they would follow the same route via Weston Point then Widnes Halton View and Bold Heath then Clock Face and New Street, there was one working that would swop the East Lance Dart around 10am for a ex WMPTE Metrobus.
North Western did a deal with MTL to end the service in exchange for some thing or other,

As for the evening 21 this is a Cheshire West contract and up to a few years ago it did run to Runcorn plus on a Sunday Halton Transport worked this,

It also went to Warrington via Moore the contact then joint with Cheshire CC Halton Council and Warrington these two decided not to renew the contact,

As for the Sunday services in Runcorn Arriva services are all commercial and do and do not receive any funding

Ah I don't remember these services.

I'm aware of the old 21 services. Widnes commercial motors ran the evening services. Pretty much dead everyday, but in all fairness, you wouldn't have thought it was a public bus service if you saw it coming towards you.

As for the Halton services, the 21/31 Sunday services were quite baffling, serving areas that didn't really need a Sunday service, or taking quite a long route around. At one point, the 21 after Halton lea used to serve Halton village, Weston point/village and beechwood before continuing into Widnes. They were just strangely routed which is why I think the services weren't well used, despite the funding put into them. I think stagecoach could provide that better service if they just mirrored Arriva and kept the route the one that people know.

I can't see it happening to be honest, but it would be nice


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - wirralbus - 08/08/2016 05:03

The 21/31 as you say , was taking the circut of a route because it was funded , if it was commercial it would of found the fastest route , the funding authorities have to get every ounce of money out of the route they can.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - MTL0201 - 08/08/2016 15:40

Rock Ferry is not that far from the 471/472 route, couple of miles from Birkenhead town centre, compared to 6 miles from Gillmoss, plus it's a lot easier to recover broken down buses when one breaks down on the Wirral side, as happened a couple of weeks ago when a Stagecoach enviro broke down to overheating on the Woodchurch Road, & not that far to go to if one in breaks down in Liverpool City Centre.