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RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 31/07/2016 12:26

(31/07/2016 11:58)wirralbus Wrote:  The thing I really do not understand with the service 1 is why the route has to service both tourist destinations that does put it on course at certain times of the day to lose significant chunks of time to congestion.

Unfortunately you have weigh up Liverpool - Cheshire Oaks end of the route when your looking at increasing frequency on the route and if it had needed it , it would have been done .

Special events will always bring people in and not always possible to obtain the buses for this , in the bus industry there isn't the spare vehicles and drivers .

I agree Chester is like a big man trying to fit in skinny jeans , Rock Ferry when all its buses are in is quite tight but nowhere near like Chester.

When I say additional buses, I mean just COaks/Zoo to Chester. You know like the X8 does but the X8 serves no where near where people want to be in Chester (Town hall). They dont have to extend. Like additional buses run for Southport Flower Show, Aintree, Football at Goodison Park/Anfield so why not big events like Cheshire Oaks light switch on? I understand buses but routes finish early and by 10pm when the event finishes, most buses are free. Just ask drivers to volunteer and give an extra few quid in wages.

As for the routing of Service 1, I think COaks is the major area of concern. I think buses should be sent the opposite way round towards Liverpool so serves Coaks then Colliseum. Expecially X8 as well as it makes sense for that route. Everyone is confused as flip when they see a bus because 1 route, 2 destination in 1 bus stop. The bus stops are on the opposite side of the road so infastructure is there and it is quieter in that direction. Peak time Liverpool - Chester needs to be more express or run additional buses which do run express. I know X8 runs slightly express but not half as express as it could do. Liverpool - Ellesmere Port straight along M53 then from Port straight down A41 to Chester.

A lot of passengers in Eport want more buses to Chester and especially in Ex GHA areas like Great sutton, Rivacre etc. SC are the only ones that could do it as Aintree dont have the buses as far as I know. SC could have so many good routes in Chester. Like a shift route to Airbus. Chesters biggest employer has no link to Chesters biggest residential area. Blacon - Airbus for shift change times. I worked out a timetable at one point and it could all be done with 1 bus but no one will do it. So many routes make sense but companies dont want it for some reason. Why cant companies do the 6 week trial and then remove if no good. At least it was trialled!


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - mtl97 - 31/07/2016 12:38

I think stagecoach have done a good job at covering gha work with timescale they had, im sure they would of covered more if they had more buses & staff, first when they had the operations had benefit of a profitable outstation in ellesmere port which they regretted closing when they bought chester city, maybe stagecoach could look at an outstation in the port area again which could help out chester especially with chester taking on arrivas share of 2, rock ferry will have more work in september with increase in frequency of 41/42 to 10 minute combined service plus ive read route 1 will be increased frequency, the 38 is losing the heswall bit but that is only 1 bus, the sp1/2 might increase when stagecoach have resorces as there training buses have been seen regular in ellesmere port, also expect some very interesting arriva wirral changes in january when merseytravel wirral routes take effect a few arriva routes are at risk for underperforming which are under review


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - wirralbus - 31/07/2016 14:05

(31/07/2016 12:26)iMarkeh Wrote:  When I say additional buses, I mean just COaks/Zoo to Chester. You know like the X8 does but the X8 serves no where near where people want to be in Chester (Town hall). They dont have to extend. Like additional buses run for Southport Flower Show, Aintree, Football at Goodison Park/Anfield so why not big events like Cheshire Oaks light switch on? I understand buses but routes finish early and by 10pm when the event finishes, most buses are free. Just ask drivers to volunteer and give an extra few quid in wages.

As for the routing of Service 1, I think COaks is the major area of concern. I think buses should be sent the opposite way round towards Liverpool so serves Coaks then Colliseum. Expecially X8 as well as it makes sense for that route. Everyone is confused as flip when they see a bus because 1 route, 2 destination in 1 bus stop. The bus stops are on the opposite side of the road so infastructure is there and it is quieter in that direction. Peak time Liverpool - Chester needs to be more express or run additional buses which do run express. I know X8 runs slightly express but not half as express as it could do. Liverpool - Ellesmere Port straight along M53 then from Port straight down A41 to Chester.

A lot of passengers in Eport want more buses to Chester and especially in Ex GHA areas like Great sutton, Rivacre etc. SC are the only ones that could do it as Aintree dont have the buses as far as I know. SC could have so many good routes in Chester. Like a shift route to Airbus. Chesters biggest employer has no link to Chesters biggest residential area. Blacon - Airbus for shift change times. I worked out a timetable at one point and it could all be done with 1 bus but no one will do it. So many routes make sense but companies dont want it for some reason. Why cant companies do the 6 week trial and then remove if no good. At least it was trialled!

1. I don't think there is enough buses and passengers for a Cheshire Oaks - Chester shuttle , the X8 only operates because Chester Zoo and the railway companies see a business case .

2. At Cheshire oaks I have always argued that the roundabouts are the biggest congestion generators replace them with traffic lights and sequence all the lights that should go some way to making the area better for all especially the traffic trying to get out of the sainsburys supermarket car park , im surprised there is not more accidents than there actually is . Make the X8 to much of an express and it will struggle to make a decent return so I would say no to the M53 leave it with the stops on the A41 maybe add Bromborough Cross never understood that omission from all but peak hour workings.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 31/07/2016 15:25

(31/07/2016 12:38)mtl97 Wrote:  I think stagecoach have done a good job at covering gha work with timescale they had, im sure they would of covered more if they had more buses & staff, first when they had the operations had benefit of a profitable outstation in ellesmere port which they regretted closing when they bought chester city, maybe stagecoach could look at an outstation in the port area again which could help out chester especially with chester taking on arrivas share of 2, rock ferry will have more work in september with increase in frequency of 41/42 to 10 minute combined service plus ive read route 1 will be increased frequency, the 38 is losing the heswall bit but that is only 1 bus, the sp1/2 might increase when stagecoach have resorces as there training buses have been seen regular in ellesmere port, also expect some very interesting arriva wirral changes in january when merseytravel wirral routes take effect a few arriva routes are at risk for underperforming which are under review
That could be a good alternative to a new depot in Chester. They will get the SP1/SP2 Versas from GHA as they were owned by Flintshire I think so they will go back and move onwards to SC when they are released. Training Vehicles I think should stay at Gilmoss as that depot is huge. The Eport outstation would probs hold the Golds to be fair as the last few golds terminate at Eport so they would be good for there and maybe the 2 solos for the 6 UNLESS that goes back to how it was with 6 interworking with X2 (I want this to happen again). SC are good at putting in good frequencies on services but they fall slightly when it comes to the areas. I think we need a major company like GHA which serves all the small areas.

(31/07/2016 14:05)wirralbus Wrote:  1. I don't think there is enough buses and passengers for a Cheshire Oaks - Chester shuttle , the X8 only operates because Chester Zoo and the railway companies see a business case .

2. At Cheshire oaks I have always argued that the roundabouts are the biggest congestion generators replace them with traffic lights and sequence all the lights that should go some way to making the area better for all especially the traffic trying to get out of the sainsburys supermarket car park , im surprised there is not more accidents than there actually is . Make the X8 to much of an express and it will struggle to make a decent return so I would say no to the M53 leave it with the stops on the A41 maybe add Bromborough Cross never understood that omission from all but peak hour workings.

1. I mean specifically for the COaks light switch on. Not everyday. The light switchon is packed. Maybe also at christmas increase to 20 min rather than 30 as it is busy around christmas. Generally though, it is fine.

2. COaks is horrid. The X8 could save so much time not stopping. It is a major shopping area though which is why so many buses stop despite its silly roads. Making some buses go Anti clockwise would make it so much better as then slightly fewer vehicles would mean traffic should flow slightly better. 36 especially goes right around the back of Coaks past blue Planet to go into Colliseum, round and back out. Save time and just cut out Blue Planet and it would be so much easier. The clockwise way around COaks is the most congested but SC wont change them around so it seems SC want their buses to be stuck in traffic. Lets face it, there is no other logical reason why they wont swap the bus stops there!

X8 shouldnt serve Bromborough. It has enough buses. Plus it just holds up the buses and gives a longer journey time A41 has a higher speed limit so it goes faster. A41 is good routing but it can be very busy and that is what makes me think M53 to Eport. I think it would be quicker. X8 should cut out COaks and take over X2 from Eport to Chester. I know it serves Foregate St not Bus Exchange but in the short term, I think it will be better. X8 will make up the half hourly to Chester AND it will be a quicker link to the zoo as well as linking Eport railway station with Chester Rail station as changing trains at hooton takes time...


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 31/07/2016 15:30

(31/07/2016 15:24)Dentonian Wrote:  I can see the validity of such a service insofaras a direct route would avoid changing buses in the city centre. However, a number of questions need to be asked.
1. How many BAe employees live in Blacon?
2. How many are car owners?
3. How do the shifts work eg. 0800-1600; 1600-2400 & 2400-0800 would be far more costly to cater for than either three shifts away from traditional school/office peaks, or staggered shifts creating demand say, every 2 hours rather than every 8.
4. What are the long term prospects for BAe, bearing in mind Apprentices (or whatever they are called) or new starters are less likely to have a car at their disposal. I believe forecasts say that the A380 has passed its peak, and unless someone other than Emirates puts in a big order then production could cease within 3 or 4 years. Also, Brexit casts doubt on the future of AirbusUK in general, if production here is at a disadvantage to Tianjin, China or Mobile, Alabama.

6 week trials for such services would be far too short, both from the point of view of generating demand and because 8 weeks notice needs to be given for service changes! I can't remember who, but one GM Operator recently registered a new service, only to deregister the day before it started!!!
Unfortunately, it has always been one of the great failures of deregulation that the privatised bus industry have shown no route innovation whatsoever - rather they are obsessed with fighting each other and neglecting captive markets.

There are 3 shift patterns I think. This is the email I sent to Arriva. I cant seem to find the one I sent to SC. SC email was slightly adapted to their routes.

Quote:NEW SERVICE (Airbus - Saughall)
This bus is primarily for the workers however it is also a good direct link for residents wishing to shop at Broughton on the mid-day buses. There is currently no direct link between Blacon and one of Chesters biggest employers. This bus would bring in quite a lot of money as changing buses is very time consuming. I advise you have a flat fare single/return for this service. I advise a week ticket for this specific service as then the employees of Airbus can get a week ticket and not worry after that about purchasing a ticket. This service is a little messed up with all the times and there is no general interval. This services’ times are all worked around the Airbus’ shift patterns. This service should start in Saughall Church Lane. Travel via The Ridings then down past Blacon Parade then turn right down Blacon Hall Lane. Turn left at the Highfield Pub then turn right onto Sealand Road. Travel along the dual carriageway until Queensferry. The bus should then head through Sandycroft to the rear of Airbus. From here, the bus should proceed round to the front of Airbus.
The first bus should leave at 05:05 which should arrive at the rear for 05:45 then at the front for 05:52. The bus should then head into Broughton Retail Park for workers at the shops to go to work early. Arrival here should be around 05:55 and departure around 06:05. Once the bus has departed, it should head round to the front of Airbus (Dep 06:10). After this, round to the back (Dep 06:16) then finally back to Blacon and Saughall (Arr 06:55). Once arrived at Saughall, the bus should depart back for Airbus for the 07:45 starters. This bus should leave at 06:58 and arrive at Airbus rear at 07:38 and the front at 07:43. This will be cutting it fine for the 07:45 starters so the route may have to be modified to cut short on the early trip and start late at Blacon Parade and/or a quicker route not going via Blacon Hall Road. After the bus arrives at Airbus, the service should either run as a 12 or return to the depot.
A Friday only service is needed at 11:55 from Airbus heading into Saughall arriving at 12:40. There is no need for a 16:10 service as people on this shift finish at 11:45 on a Friday.
The next service that will be required is around 12:20 for a round trip arriving at Airbus rear at 13:00 and front at 13:06. The bus should then go into Broughton Shopping Park (Arr 13:10). After this, it should depart Broughton for Airbus at 13:35. This bus should depart Airbus front at 13:40 and the rear at 13:46. The bus should arrive into Saughall around 14:30. After this, the bus should run as a service 15 or run back to the depot. Another bus needs to leave Broughton Shopping Park at 16:10. This bus would depart Airbus front at 16:15 and the rear at 16:22. Arrival at Saughall is estimated around 17:05. This bus can then continue on service 15 or run light back to the depot.
The final duty should be one of the 12s which earlier arrived into the depot. The bus should depart Broughton Shopping Park at 20:25 (20:45 Monday – Thursday) leave Airbus front at around 20:30 (20:50 on Monday – Thursday) and the rear at 20:36 (20:56 Monday – Thursday). This bus should arrive into Saughall at 21:25 (21:45 Monday – Thursday).



RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Metroline1511 - 31/07/2016 19:37

(31/07/2016 07:05)childwallblues Wrote:  Runcorn is more naturally attached to Liverpool rather than Manchester due to dispersal of people from South Liverpool in the 1960s and 1970s.

As Runcorn is on the Mersey I have always wondered why Merseyside was created to exclude Runcorn but include Southport. Admittedly Southport had a municipal bus company. Mind you, there was and still is Halton at Widnes. This distinction should be eliminated when the Liverpool City Region is created.

I spotted talk earlier about Stagecoach being more successful than Arriva on Chester - Birkenhead and Blacon services than Arriva. It is perhaps worth noting that Stagecoach are successors to traditional operators Crosville and ChesterBus on these services. Arriva only link Birkenhead with Chester because they bought MTL who had introduced these competing services. Similarly, Arriva decided to compete on Blacon services when ChesterBus was put up for sale.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - St Helens Rider - 31/07/2016 20:31

(31/07/2016 19:58)Dentonian Wrote:  I think its more to do with Stagecoach being a successor to First (lol).

Certainly, Runcorn and indeed most of Cheshire west of Macc - and since De-reg, St Helens - have never had good public transport links to Manchester

What killed St Helens link to Manchester was the MTL/GM Bus war and the enshuing agreement afterwards. In fact, events since the 1995 agreement have made a lot of transport links from St Helens poorer.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - iMarkeh - 31/07/2016 20:56

(31/07/2016 15:48)Dentonian Wrote:  I'm not familiar with the area, but the (off-peak) timings seem slack as Traveline reckon you can get from Blacon into Chester, wait for a connection and still be at Broughton within c.45 minutes. The shift pattern doesn't really lend itself to an efficient bus service, although depending on school hours in Chester, the afternoon one might just give enough room to work a school contract between 1430 & 1610.

The school bus that SC run in Chester finishes in Saughall around 4ish I would say. For some of the shifts though at Airbus, like the early one, buses dont run early enough along the corridor and dont serve both sides of Airbus until the 12 starts later on. I think for each of the shifts it could be viable. People have to get to and from work and getting direct is so much more appealing than changing. SC have decent prices too so that should move people from cars to buses therefore meaning when shifts start/end there should be less traffic and therefore helping more people get home quicker or move around quicker.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - Bevan Price - 31/07/2016 21:38

(31/07/2016 20:31)St Helens Rider Wrote:  What killed St Helens link to Manchester was the MTL/GM Bus war and the enshuing agreement afterwards. In fact, events since the 1995 agreement have made a lot of transport links from St Helens poorer.

What also helped to kill St. Helens - Manchester bus services is that the routes were too long and too slow. Journeys taking almost 2 hours each way are never going to attract many people commuting to work, and shoppers can find a very similar range of shops in Liverpool, which is a much shorter journey.

Most of those making trips to Manchester by public transport choose the much faster train service, despite the inconvenient location of St. Helens Junction, some 2 miles from the town centre.


RE: Stagecoach Chester & Wirral - childwallblues - 01/08/2016 07:04

(31/07/2016 21:38)Bevan Price Wrote:  What also helped to kill St. Helens - Manchester bus services is that the routes were too long and too slow. Journeys taking almost 2 hours each way are never going to attract many people commuting to work, and shoppers can find a very similar range of shops in Liverpool, which is a much shorter journey.

Most of those making trips to Manchester by public transport choose the much faster train service, despite the inconvenient location of St. Helens Junction, some 2 miles from the town centre.

Yes but a lot of people live along the Rainhill, Lea Green, St Helens Junction, Earlestown, Newton-le-Willows corridor.