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Ribble - St Helens Rider - 28/03/2016 09:59
Thought I'd start this thread as although different aspects of Ribble are covered in various threads in the Old Days - there is no general thread for items about the company.
Very interesting article charting the history of Ribble on the Fylde.
Ribble on the Fylde - Part 1: Origins
http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/ribble-on-fylde-part-1-origins.html
RE: Ribble - St Helens Rider - 28/03/2016 20:38
Ribble on the Fylde: Part 2: Preston to Lytham and Blackpool
http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/ribble-on-fylde-part-2-preston-to.html
Credit: Fylde Bus Blog.
RE: Ribble - St Helens Rider - 03/04/2016 08:42
Ribble on the Fylde Part 3: Wyre Locals 1931 to 1986
http://fyldebus.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/ribble-on-fylde-part-3-wyre-locals-1931.html
Credit: Fylde Bus Blog.
RE: Ribble - teenagewasteland - 03/04/2016 22:04
Ribble on Merseyside is a story within itself.
Between 1930 and 1972, the company had operating agreements / joint working arrangements with various municipals in the area. In January 1972, Ribble signed an agreement with Merseyside PTE which gave the Executive control over all the company's bus services, and instead guaranteed Ribble a percentage of total bus mileage within the PTE area.
It wasn't until 1975 that the effects of this began to bear fruit, when the PTE cut back large tracts of Ribble dominated territory - Ormskirk Road, Maghull and, in particular, Crosby / Waterloo.
Due to the Executive pursuing a pro-rail policy at the expense of buses, Ribble's operations were severely curtailed on north Merseyside, where their buses had previously competed with the fast trains in and out of Liverpool. The Waterloo Interchange, opened by the PTE in January 1977, was the largest of its kind on Merseyside, where the remaining local Ribble buses were diverted to connect with the trains at Waterloo for Liverpool Exchange (soon to be extended to Liverpool Central in May 1977).
There was a general feeling that Ribble's Bootle depot was more answerable to Hatton Garden than Frenchwood Avenue. The PTE loaned the company Ultimate ticket machines for use on local services, and the PTE logo was displayed alongside the Ribble / NBC logos on the side of local vehicles (ditto Crosville).
In the run-up to dereg, Ribble was split up into what the NBC deemed more managable units - the Merseyside operation became North Western in September 1986.
Sorry if this post sounds like a rip-off from Bruce Maund's book, but he was mostly correct in what he said. Roger Davies' book about his time with Ribble under PTE control on Merseyside is a lot more scathing, and criticises Ribble for jumping so high everytime the PTE told them to.
RE: Ribble - skelmersey - 05/04/2016 14:01
(03/04/2016 22:04)teenagewasteland Wrote: Ribble on Merseyside is a story within itself.
Between 1930 and 1972, the company had operating agreements / joint working arrangements with various municipals in the area. In January 1972, Ribble signed an agreement with Merseyside PTE which gave the Executive control over all the company's bus services, and instead guaranteed Ribble a percentage of total bus mileage within the PTE area.
It wasn't until 1975 that the effects of this began to bear fruit, when the PTE cut back large tracts of Ribble dominated territory - Ormskirk Road, Maghull and, in particular, Crosby / Waterloo.
Due to the Executive pursuing a pro-rail policy at the expense of buses, Ribble's operations were severely curtailed on north Merseyside, where their buses had previously competed with the fast trains in and out of Liverpool. The Waterloo Interchange, opened by the PTE in January 1977, was the largest of its kind on Merseyside, where the remaining local Ribble buses were diverted to connect with the trains at Waterloo for Liverpool Exchange (soon to be extended to Liverpool Central in May 1977).
There was a general feeling that Ribble's Bootle depot was more answerable to Hatton Garden than Frenchwood Avenue. The PTE loaned the company Ultimate ticket machines for use on local services, and the PTE logo was displayed alongside the Ribble / NBC logos on the side of local vehicles (ditto Crosville).
In the run-up to dereg, Ribble was split up into what the NBC deemed more managable units - the Merseyside operation became North Western in September 1986.
Sorry if this post sounds like a rip-off from Bruce Maund's book, but he was mostly correct in what he said. Roger Davies' book about his time with Ribble under PTE control on Merseyside is a lot more scathing, and criticises Ribble for jumping so high everytime the PTE told them to.
I would certainly say Bootle was a PTE depot in all but name in the 70's and early 80's. I wonder if North Western purchased the Ultimate machines from the PTE as they used them after d-reg in 86-87.
RE: Ribble - teenagewasteland - 09/04/2016 14:51
(05/04/2016 14:01)skelmersey Wrote: I would certainly say Bootle was a PTE depot in all but name in the 70's and early 80's. I wonder if North Western purchased the Ultimate machines from the PTE as they used them after d-reg in 86-87.
North Western used the PTE Ultimates (complete with PTE tickets!!) until about May 1987.
Mid-80s, Ribble's Bootle depot catered for the joint services on the 57 / B57 and 58, and the Crosby services 206 / 211 / 284 / 351 / 391 / 392 (Bootle - Maghull) / 727 (evening peak journeys between Southport and Liverpool) / C2 / L3 / L11 / L21 / L22 / L23 / L35 / L81 plus various works / school journeys in the local area.
The L81 Thornton - Skelhorne Street converted to single deck operation during evenings in the mid-80s due to vandalism. Although Bootle had a few National 2s to use, it was common to borrow some elderly REs from Aintree, and fit them with an adaptor plate on the Setright machines to use the PTE Ultimates. Same thing happened on the odd Southport-based Leopard working a morning short 727.
Bootle was the final resting place for Ribble's crew operations on the PD3/5s during September 1981, when the 58 and 351 were converted to one-person operation.
RE: Ribble - Barney - 09/04/2016 16:36
(09/04/2016 14:51)teenagewasteland Wrote: North Western used the PTE Ultimates (complete with PTE tickets!!) until about May 1987.
Mid-80s, Ribble's Bootle depot catered for the joint services on the 57 / B57 and 58, and the Crosby services 206 / 211 / 284 / 351 / 391 / 392 (Bootle - Maghull) / 727 (evening peak journeys between Southport and Liverpool) / C2 / L3 / L11 / L21 / L22 / L23 / L35 / L81 plus various works / school journeys in the local area.
The L81 Thornton - Skelhorne Street converted to single deck operation during evenings in the mid-80s due to vandalism. Although Bootle had a few National 2s to use, it was common to borrow some elderly REs from Aintree, and fit them with an adaptor plate on the Setright machines to use the PTE Ultimates. Same thing happened on the odd Southport-based Leopard working a morning short 727.
Bootle was the final resting place for Ribble's crew operations on the PD3/5s during September 1981, when the 58 and 351 were converted to one-person operation.
And the Waterloo interchange is now used as an unofficial car park. The successor of the L3 (53) is now a QBP operating between Crosby and Queen Square.
RE: Ribble - teenagewasteland - 09/04/2016 17:57
(09/04/2016 16:36)Barney Wrote: And the Waterloo interchange is now used as an unofficial car park. The successor of the L3 (53) is now a QBP operating between Crosby and Queen Square.
The Waterloo Interchange was, ironically enough, a way for the PTE to save money. The idea was to withdraw many through services between Crosby and the city centre, and divert the remaining services to connect with the trains to and from Liverpool. It's claimed, in Maund's book anyway, that the financial situation was so serious (probably concerning the PTE's payments to Ribble - were the PTE skint????) that the new scheme began in January 1977, instead of four months later when the Link line was completed on Merseyrail to Liverpool Central. There must have been many irate passengers who, so used to Ribble buses terminating in the centre of town on Skelhorne Street, found themselves with a fair walk from their destination while the trains still ended at Exchange!
A link bridge between the Interchange and the station platform was installed many months later after a number of near misses on busy South Road with passengers transferring between the buses and the frontage of Waterloo station. The bridge is still there, doing a job, but it's a little dark and murky.
The PTE gradually ran down Ribble's services in Crosby to what they deemed an acceptable level by about 1980, and the network ran fairly smoothly up to dereg. A similar bus-rail interchange scheme was put into place at Kirkby.
At dereg, all the co-ordination was abandoned, even though various services still used South Road. The PTE, through the tendering process, tried to keep up a small bus-rail presence with the 103 Waterloo - Dingle connecting with the trains arriving to / from Southport but this wasn't successful.
The PTE still own and operate Waterloo Interchange, and as you say, it's used more as a taxi car park than anything else now. The 103 and 133 still terminate there though.
The L3 / 53 connection goes back to the early 1930s - and the general route between Crosby and city centre has been much unchanged despite the enormous upheaval over the years.
RE: Ribble - skelmersey - 09/04/2016 21:26
Just wondering, did Crosville have any routes or garages that used the same arrangement and issued PTE tickets pre 86?
RE: Ribble - teenagewasteland - 10/04/2016 21:36
(09/04/2016 21:26)skelmersey Wrote: Just wondering, did Crosville have any routes or garages that used the same arrangement and issued PTE tickets pre 86?
To my knowledge, no. Crosville used a similar Setright machine to Ribble, except Ribble's were the "bell punch" motorised versions, and Crosville used the "handle" version, which I think was an earlier model? In the PTE divisions, Liverpool and Southport used Ultimates. St.Helens and Wirral used Almexs.
My feeling with Ribble was that, for whatever reasons, the PTE were not happy with Bootle's ticketing arrangements / fare collections on the local services, all of which (discounting the Ormskirk route) operated wholly within Merseyside. Ribble Aintree used Setrights, yet their services mostly served the PTE area, with regular services out to Ormskirk and Skelmersdale too. Fares outside the Merseyside county into Lancashire could get enormously complicated.