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+--- Thread: Route History (/showthread.php?tid=402)
RE: Route History - teenagewasteland - 03/08/2020 23:28
The Pier Head bus station was costing the bus companies a fortune in lost mileage because fewer people were heading there. For those who remember (or don't remember!) it was a dark, forboding place at the best of times. Then there was the wind off the river. All this combined made it somewhere not particularly hospitable to visit. On saying that, I used to spend hours on the balconies jotting down bus numbers as they came in! After it was initially closed down, it was used for a John Lennon concert. The centre shelters were demolished, the subways filled in, and some buses came back for a while - mainly tendered services. One wonders if Merseybus, like North Western, were a little fed-up with the PTE terminal charges at Pier Head bus station too? Maybe that quickened its' demise.
The 1991 service changes that Merseybus made by combining various routes had to have been a cost-cutting measure. Longer bus routes tend to utilise vehicles more efficiently. I have a Merseybus fleet list from around this time, and about 200 buses are not allocated to a depot - whether they were withdrawn, pooled, broken, something else I really don't know?
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 06/08/2020 23:33
Yep, i remember the Pier Head bus station vividly, the only use after d-reg & the reduction of the ferry services really was the canteen for drivers there, the Pier Head could be really bleak in the middle of winter, although quite nice on a fine summer day, the bus station itself was awful, the centre stands[Z stands i called them] were awful i remember the subway linking it smelling of urine.
When the Pier Head was closed for that concert, buses moved to St Nicholas Place, buses then moved back to the Pier Head commercial & tendered services, although 3 stands on the Northern side were all that was left after the rebuild, the rest of the area was used for layover, but yep, buses were mostly carrying fresh air Pier Head to/from Lord Street-Gyrotory, dread to think what the extra mileage was costing Merseybus
I do have a Merseybus fleetlist[7th edition] from 1990
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 06/08/2020 23:42
Been rummaging through my stuff, & found a few old timetables from the mid 90s, one of which the Lancashire Travel 34 Liverpool-Leigh from 21st August 1995 when the bus war with GM Buses was over, & the 34 was split at Leigh, it wasn't long before the 34 was cut to St Helens-Leigh with a couple of peak journeys through to Liverpool, then St Helens-Liverpool withdrawn altogether.
Interestingly, Warrington Borough Transport started a 10X Warrington-Liverpool Hood Street Gyrotory via the old H2 in March 1996 on an hourly frequency.
I also have an X8 Banks-Chester/Llandudno timetable from May 96, when North Western X8 merged with Crosville Wales Coastliner X1 for the summer
RE: Route History - St Helens Rider - 07/08/2020 06:32
That 10X sounds similar to the H2 which around 89/90 was run by Five Star Travel who were using a 64 Reg Leopard on it. Then briefly North Western took it over.
RE: Route History - Gillmoss 0324 - 07/08/2020 18:12
(07/08/2020 06:32)St Helens Rider Wrote: That 10X sounds similar to the H2 which around 89/90 was run by Five Star Travel who were using a 64 Reg Leopard on it. Then briefly North Western took it over.
I forgot the operator who ran that H2 which appeared around '89 IIRC wasn't it a M-F peak service and are they related to the Five Star Travel who run coach trips these days?
WBT's 10X appeared after they briefly had a go with a hourly H4 from late' 95 to Spring '96 which ran like the H5 to the Rocket then went Broadgreen Road and Prescot Road like the 10's, when it became the 10X it ran like the 10's to Rainhill then as said probably like the H2 to Warrington and that lasted until the Warrington bus war ended in the Summer when it was curtailed to Prescot IIRC renumbered 28 and lasted until 1999 when it was withdrawn.
I might be wrong but ddn't the 34's when MTL's Lancashire Travel took over originally run hourly from Liverpool - Leigh with a extra from St Helens making it 30 minute's combined from St Helens to Leigh in the daytime? Also didn't it stop being a limited stop service too as sure when I used it in '95 I could get off at the stop where the retail park in Edge Lane is, the GMB/GMN service definitely didn't stop at? I think the 34 shortly became M-F peak only to/from Liverpool and was then curtailed to St Helens from Autumn 95 and Arriva have done it's various 34/34A revisions over the years too.
RE: Route History - St Helens Rider - 07/08/2020 20:40
The H2 was every 2 hours Mon-Sat daytime (yes they managed a round trip in 2 hours - probably impossible these days). It was Toppings X10 (City Centre - Rainhill Stoops) that was Peak Only which maybe where the confusion lies.
As for Lancashire Travel 34, when they took over from GM, it was every 30 minutes Liverpool - Leigh serving most of the same stop as GM. I also recall it departed from ictoria Square in St Helens towards Liverpool. The Liverpool extension was gradually wound down with it being Peak Only in it's final form.
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 09/08/2020 05:59
Looking at the LT 34 timetables, the 34 was every 30 minutes to Liverpool, then got cut St Helens-Leigh with only 2 morning peak & 3 afternoon peak journeys running through to Liverpool, July 96 the 34 was rerouted via Prescot Road & no longer served Edge Lane.
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 17/08/2020 17:55
I have a 1999 Liverpool area bus map, other than the smart routes 1//4/5, there was other cross City Centre routes
20/20D Aigburth-Tower Hill, which lasted until Stagecoach reorganized the routes after buying GTL, & 20 was cut to City Centre
82/82A, Netherton-Speke, Arriva
86, Garston-Crosby/Thornton, Arriva
82/82A/86 were North Western routes under City Plus branding when the East Lancs EL2000 darts were introduced, North Western became Arriva before Arriva brought MTL, & reshaped the network in 2001 i think, with 82/82A/86 being split in the City Centre, with the northern section becoming 52/52A & merging with the existing 53
RE: Route History - Walton 46 - 17/08/2020 21:07
(17/08/2020 17:55)MTL0201 Wrote: I have a 1999 Liverpool area bus map, other than the smart routes 1//4/5, there was other cross City Centre routes
20/20D Aigburth-Tower Hill, which lasted until Stagecoach reorganized the routes after buying GTL, & 20 was cut to City Centre
82/82A, Netherton-Speke, Arriva
86, Garston-Crosby/Thornton, Arriva
82/82A/86 were North Western routes under City Plus branding when the East Lancs EL2000 darts were introduced, North Western became Arriva before Arriva brought MTL, & reshaped the network in 2001 i think, with 82/82A/86 being split in the City Centre, with the northern section becoming 52/52A & merging with the existing 53
Something I've been wondering for a while: prior to the North Western 82/82A Netherton-Speke, was there an equivalent to today's 52/52A route?
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 18/08/2020 00:13
My 1988 & 1990 maps show a 28/29 circular route operated by North Western, this followed the current 52 Liverpool-Netherton, then by 1990 28/29 was diverted in Bootle via Orrell Road & Watts Lane[current 52A route], from Netherton 28/29 went via the old 30 route back to City Centre, but via Scotland Road rather than Netherfield Road North/South & Shaw Street, not sure when the 28/29 were withdrawn