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+--- Thread: Route History (/showthread.php?tid=402)
RE: Route History - Gillmoss 0324 - 22/05/2019 12:06
(21/05/2019 13:03)MTL0201 Wrote: Actually come to that, my 1988 bus map shows there was a couple of North Western circulars 401/402 & 403/404 these were
401/402 City City Centre-Huyton Circular via whole of the current 8 & 9 to Pilch Lane via Woodfall Heath & Huyton, then Thingwall Hall Drive & Thomas Lane & via the 61 to City Centre
403/403 City Centre-Lodge Lane Circular via 86 to Upper Parliament Street, 26/27 to Kensington & 10 to City Centre
I thought the 401/402 was a innovative attempt at competition in East Liverpool/Huyton and arguably even now provided some good high frequency links to most parts in that general area. The only downside of that was the Carlyle/Sherpa breadvan's which were seriously cramped and wouldn't want a standing load on board/to stand on, which sometimes happened.
I remember the 403/404 but didn't use it and don't think it was as successful as the 401/402. It was also interesting that Merseybus didn't really respond to this either as unlike when Amberline began their A2 minibus service to Speke via the 82 corridor and the Merseymini M2 appeared, there wasn't really any similar move by Merseybus with Merseymini services on Prescot/Picton Road and don't remember the 9's/10's or 78/79's having fare cuts and upped frequencies like they did against Fareway and Liverline either.
Again it was the Crosville pull out which opened the door to North Western getting established in East/South Liverpool. However I always felt they only really had a major presence when they began their 10A's and made the acquisitions of Liverline and Amberline in 1993.
RE: Route History - Gillmoss 0324 - 22/05/2019 12:20
(21/05/2019 11:22)St Helens Rider Wrote: The buses around Christmases in the late 80s/early 90s are a subject in themselves as many different operators were in very unchartered territories. Off top of my head, remember CMT in St Helens (well before their stint on the 10's), Liverbus and Blue Triangle to name but a few. Also in early 2000's, Ace Travel running a Metro bus on the 10A (when the route was single deck the rest of the time).
Yes you did used to get some interesting operators on the Boxing/New Year's day runs. In 99/2000 Happy Al's and Avon Bus were doing turns on the 26/27's, LMS were on the 79's and Huggins (I think) were doing some cross river services too. Also the different MTL garages did runs back then too
Even WBT's H5 ran it's Sunday timetable to 7pm back then too!
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 22/05/2019 12:33
(22/05/2019 12:06)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote: I thought the 401/402 was a innovative attempt at competition in East Liverpool/Huyton and arguably even now provided some good high frequency links to most parts in that general area. The only downside of that was the Carlyle/Sherpa breadvan's which were seriously cramped and wouldn't want a standing load on board/to stand on, which sometimes happened.
I remember the 403/404 but didn't use it and don't think it was as successful as the 401/402. It was also interesting that Merseybus didn't really respond to this either as unlike when Amberline began their A2 minibus service to Speke via the 82 corridor and the Merseymini M2 appeared, there wasn't really any similar move by Merseybus with Merseymini services on Prescot/Picton Road and don't remember the 9's/10's or 78/79's having fare cuts and upped frequencies like they did against Fareway and Liverline either.
Again it was the Crosville pull out which opened the door to North Western getting established in East/South Liverpool. However I always felt they only really had a major presence when they began their 10A's and made the acquisitions of Liverline and Amberline in 1993.
Merseybus responded when Liverbus started there network like at d-reg 9 group of routes were
9 Lyme Cross-Pier Head
9C Huyton-Pier Head
9D Knowsley-Pier Head
Think 9D was a peak service only after d-reg, 9C was extended from Longview to Huyton, Longview ceased being a terminus, as did the turning circle on Northern Perimeter Road in Netherton[both terminus are still there, Longview is a taxi rank now], defore d-reg the 30 & 55 terminated here, after d-reg 30 was extended to Old Roan & the 55 became a circular route
There was major Merseybus changes spring 1988, 9C became 9B, the 9 was withdrawn, 9A was introduced Knowsley-Pier Head, 9D extended to Kirkby Station, again 9A/9D i think peak hours only,
It wasn't until Liverbus started 274/275 sometime in 1990, Merseybus responded withdrawing the 9A/9D, & extending the 9B, renumbering the 9B to 8 & 9 to the current circular as we know it, with a few changes to the City Centre terminuses & frequencies.
RE: Route History - MPTE1955 - 22/05/2019 13:35
9D was extended to Kirkby and was a regular service not long after de-reg.
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 22/05/2019 13:41
(22/05/2019 13:35)MPTE1955 Wrote: 9D was extended to Kirkby and was a regular service not long after de-reg.
Just added a few more bits, 9D was extended to Kirkby spring 1988, i remember catching the 9D a few times, around that time, as summer 89, i started buying a child weekly zone ticket all areas with my pocket money, left school at closing time, quite often school bus to Seacombe, then ferry to Liverpool, then bus out mostly rapidride routes, quite often back home 9/10pm[i was 15 so i was allowed to].
RE: Route History - MPTE1955 - 22/05/2019 14:12
Yes sounds about right, remember catching an E_WBG Olympians on there when new a couple of times. Used to get to/from Town to Kirkby for a change sometimes.
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 22/05/2019 14:26
Talking about rapidride routes the PTE introduced peak hour rapidride routes in the 70s, numbered in the 4xx series, buses operated from the outer terminus to a point on the route then non stop to just outside the City Centre, then all stops in the City Centre to the City Centre the rapidride, or non stop to Princess Dock then all stops to Seaforth, rapidride routes were around there peak were
400 Speke-Seaforth
405 Woolton-City Centre
412 Cantril Farm-City Centre
418/419 Heswall-Liverpool
438 Halewood-Seaforth
439 Netherley-Seaforth
478 Halewood-Pier Head
479 Netherley-Pier Head
480 Garston-Pier Head
486 Garston-Pier Head
Incidentally, 418/419 was the only rapidride route operated by Crosville
Rapidride routes had other stopping restrictions as well, only those going to/from City Centre/Docks were allowed to use them, no point to point travel in the outer part of the route, or in the City Centre/Docks was allowed
Sadly the old Seaforth terminus is no longer open to the public part of MDHC land, was opposite Knowsley Road, plus it's a trailer park now.
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 22/05/2019 15:19
At d-reg most of the rapidride routes including cross river 419 were withdrawn, leaving only the 405 which was extended to Hunts Cross via Mackets Lane, rest of the 4xx routes were cross river routes most of which introduced at d-reg with the 31/32 renumbered to 431/432 & 418 complemented by a 417 via Irby.
By 1990 some rapidride routes started springing up again, i remember a 444 Pier Head-Kirkby which didn't last long, but there was
412/413 Pier Head-Stockbridge
475 Pier Head-Huyton
479 Pier Head/Hough Green/Garston, Garston journeys via Widnes
482 Pier Head-Runcorn Norton Priory
There was a 439 Pier Head-Lee Park but don't think this was rapidride & operated Monday to Saturday
There was also a PMT Redrider 475, Moreton-Pier Head, operated evening & Sundays, this was positioning journeys when PMT Redrider took over the evening & Sunday Merseytravel tendered 175 Pier Head-Huyton
RE: Route History - St Helens Rider - 22/05/2019 16:13
Redrider later made the 175 commercial thus becoming the 75. They also ran the 106/116 evening & Sunday before Toppings took these routes over with the 106 extended to Rainhill Stoops having previously terminated in Huyton. This section was covered by a 161 which was run by Halton (Evenings) & Shearings (Sundays).
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 22/05/2019 17:29
Going on the cross river routes, not many of them before d-reg, only a night tunnel service not sure when started, later given number 94.
When the Kingsway[Wallasey] tunnel was completed early 70s, 31/32 started, 31 being New Brighton-Liverpool, & 32 Liscard-Liverpool, main difference was the routes in Liverpool.
31 went via Juvenal Street-St Anne Street-Norton Street-London Road-Lime Street, originally Hanover Street-Church Street-Lord Street-North John Street-Dale Street-Exchange Street East, then Hood Street Gyrotory-Whitechapel to Lord Street when Church Street was pedestrianised.
32 via Scotland Road-Byrom Street-Whitechapel-Crosshall Street-Dale Street, Exchange Street East, was diverted via Hood Street Gyrotory.
Both 31/32 routes from Exchange Street East, via Tithebarn Street-Great Crosshall Street-Scotland Road to the tunnel.
418 peak, 419 off peak & Saturdays, Heswall-Liverpool started in the mid 70s operated by Crosville, via Heswall Lower Village-Pensby-Thingwall then non stop to Liverpool via M53 & Kingsway Tunnel, in Liverpool 419 followed the 31 & 418 followed the 32