Not to sure if its still the same but when one of my friends was at D&G and he was a regular driver on 88s you sometimes had to leave Wilmslow late as there was too much padding in the timetable, even if you left late at Wilmslow you could probably end up being early again at another timing point along the route.
(29/05/2023 05:21)M60lad Wrote: [ -> ]Not to sure if its still the same but when one of my friends was at D&G and he was a regular driver on 88s you sometimes had to leave Wilmslow late as there was too much padding in the timetable, even if you left late at Wilmslow you could probably end up being early again at another timing point along the route.
Excessive running time is a feature of D&G and is a bit of a double edged sword. It does aid reliability, but can annoy on board passengers sitting around waiting time. Living on a route previously wrecked by Arriva using unrealistic running time and the consequent unreliability it caused, a bit of hanging around and departing timing points at the advertised time, is something I can accept, as the positives outweigh the negatives.
(29/05/2023 08:32)KXW212 Wrote: [ -> ]Excessive running time is a feature of D&G and is a bit of a double edged sword. It does aid reliability, but can annoy on board passengers sitting around waiting time. Living on a route previously wrecked by Arriva using unrealistic running time and the consequent unreliability it caused, a bit of hanging around and departing timing points at the advertised time, is something I can accept, as the positives outweigh the negatives.
IT doesn't just annoy onboard passengers but massively discourages new passengers from the network. People already compare car versus bus journey times and the longer you make the bus journey, the less likely someone is to use the bus.
At the same time, you don't want unrealistic running times. You want something in the middle. Enough padding incase things go wrong but not too much that you will put off new passengers and upset passengers sat on the bus. For passengers making longer journeys, sometimes the journey times can be increased by as much as 15 minutes due to excessive padding.
With the Knutsford to Wilmslow times if D&G took out padding the 88 could connect with Chester trains at Knutsford and London trains at Wilmslow. Chris Almond once said they don't expect many passengers to change between bus and train so they don't take that into consideration when planning timetables.
The 88 timetable was unrealistic under GHA but 10 minutes extra, then a further 5 minutes extra because if the Longridge diversion, is excessive.
The 84X is interesting because the Cheshire East transport plan identified Crewe to Nantwich as having uncompetitive timings. Wilmslow to Knutsford was also singled out.
(29/05/2023 11:27)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]IT doesn't just annoy onboard passengers but massively discourages new passengers from the network. People already compare car versus bus journey times and the longer you make the bus journey, the less likely someone is to use the bus.
At the same time, you don't want unrealistic running times. You want something in the middle. Enough padding incase things go wrong but not too much that you will put off new passengers and upset passengers sat on the bus. For passengers making longer journeys, sometimes the journey times can be increased by as much as 15 minutes due to excessive padding.
Not as much as persistent late running though. That's how Arriva successfully killed off patronage on my local route. Passengers need the assurance of on time, or as close to) as possible arrival/departure. You might get a bit of sitting around with D&G, but that's a price worth paying. Perhaps if the likes of TfGM or local councils weren't so precious about stand time and operators didn't indulge in 'flat' running time throughout, because that's easy, then schedule recovery would be possible and wouldn't affect passengers mid journey.
(31/05/2023 06:34)KXW212 Wrote: [ -> ]Not as much as persistent late running though. That's how Arriva successfully killed off patronage on my local route. Passengers need the assurance of on time, or as close to) as possible arrival/departure. You might get a bit of sitting around with D&G, but that's a price worth paying. Perhaps if the likes of TfGM or local councils weren't so precious about stand time and operators didn't indulge in 'flat' running time throughout, because that's easy, then schedule recovery would be possible and wouldn't affect passengers mid journey.
That's wonderful if you have hours to spare or you are a concessionary pass holder with nothing better to do than sit around at random bus stops for 5 minutes. For some people who actually work, time is precious and sitting around is time wasted. No, it's not a price worth paying.
I have also said that Arrivas way isn't the best either. It's a middle ground that's needed because do you know what else isn't good for encouraging passengers, buses constantly passing their stop 5 minutes earlier than the scheduled time because there is far too much time in the timetable. A story which repeats itself regularly on the Northwich 82 because D&G are too thick to change the timetable despite it clearly having far too much time at certain times of day.
(31/05/2023 11:39)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]That's wonderful if you have hours to spare or you are a concessionary pass holder with nothing better to do than sit around at random bus stops for 5 minutes. For some people who actually work, time is precious and sitting around is time wasted. No, it's not a price worth paying.
I have also said that Arrivas way isn't the best either. It's a middle ground that's needed because do you know what else isn't good for encouraging passengers, buses constantly passing their stop 5 minutes earlier than the scheduled time because there is far too much time in the timetable. A story which repeats itself regularly on the Northwich 82 because D&G are too thick to change the timetable despite it clearly having far too much time at certain times of day.
As a concessionary pass holder, I hate sitting around at bus stops. There's ALWAYS some better way that I could spend my time. However, something that has bugged me for many years is the timetabling that sets a fixed time between A and B at any time of the day, regardless of varying traffic conditions, and which bus companies seem totally unable to comprehend. The same journey that takes 40 minutes at lunchtime can easily take an hour in the rush hours, yet only 30 minutes in late evening. It shouldn't take a genius to devise a realistic timetable, and the schedule differences shouldn't be difficult to communicate to the travelling public.
(31/05/2023 19:52)EDB325 Wrote: [ -> ]As a concessionary pass holder, I hate sitting around at bus stops. There's ALWAYS some better way that I could spend my time. However, something that has bugged me for many years is the timetabling that sets a fixed time between A and B at any time of the day, regardless of varying traffic conditions, and which bus companies seem totally unable to comprehend. The same journey that takes 40 minutes at lunchtime can easily take an hour in the rush hours, yet only 30 minutes in late evening. It shouldn't take a genius to devise a realistic timetable, and the schedule differences shouldn't be difficult to communicate to the travelling public.
Arriva does add peak hour journey time to some services in Liverpool area - but without increasing bus requirement; consequence is sometimes irregular frequencies that can be hard to remember.
(31/05/2023 19:52)EDB325 Wrote: [ -> ]However, something that has bugged me for many years is the timetabling that sets a fixed time between A and B at any time of the day, regardless of varying traffic conditions, and which bus companies seem totally unable to comprehend. The same journey that takes 40 minutes at lunchtime can easily take an hour in the rush hours, yet only 30 minutes in late evening. It shouldn't take a genius to devise a realistic timetable, and the schedule differences shouldn't be difficult to communicate to the travelling public.
100% an issue. That's what is called 'lazy bone idle scheduling'. Arriva is rife with that (See Runcorn 61 as a great example. You can take 20 minutes off some of their journeys in the early morning and late evening) but sadly, this it's an industry issue. People who can schedule don't get given these tasks and instead it goes to people who are clearly incapable of doing the job whether it be they lack the braincells to do the job or they are simply too lazy to do it.
(01/06/2023 00:41)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]100% an issue. That's what is called 'lazy bone idle scheduling'. Arriva is rife with that (See Runcorn 61 as a great example. You can take 20 minutes off some of their journeys in the early morning and late evening) but sadly, this it's an industry issue. People who can schedule don't get given these tasks and instead it goes to people who are clearly incapable of doing the job whether it be they lack the braincells to do the job or they are simply too lazy to do it.
I wouldnt be removing 20 minutes from any schedule , one day that 20 minutes will be extremely useful , nibble away at it by all means but dont remove it .