That may be the case but a lot of contracts have been won because of low driver wages, and low operating costs, by moving stuff to Bolton it causes a problem in that they no longer have a competitive advantage and some of the work is now effectively uneconomical to now operate, take the route 575 when operated from Bolton depot by First Manchester it was uneconomical, effectively by moving it to Atherton it was able to be run cost effectively, now potentially back at Bolton is liable to withdrawal again as it becomes uneconomical. Then take the Leigh - Tyldesley services when operated by First Manchester from Bolton uneconomical again moved to Atherton, Profitable, so potentially about 10-20 routes now will have to be slashed or withdrawn. Hardly a good move is it?
(09/07/2019 18:36)gilesbus1 Wrote: [ -> ]That may be the case but a lot of contracts have been won because of low driver wages, and low operating costs, by moving stuff to Bolton it causes a problem in that they no longer have a competitive advantage and some of the work is now effectively uneconomical to now operate, take the route 575 when operated from Bolton depot by First Manchester it was uneconomical, effectively by moving it to Atherton it was able to be run cost effectively, now potentially back at Bolton is liable to withdrawal again as it becomes uneconomical. Then take the Leigh - Tyldesley services when operated by First Manchester from Bolton uneconomical again moved to Atherton, Profitable, so potentially about 10-20 routes now will have to be slashed or withdrawn. Hardly a good move is it?
We dont know if the routes in question will not make money with Diamond Bus when they are moved into Bolton Depot, At the time First where on the back foot whereas Diamond Bus are currently growing, different way of working might keep these routes going
To be fair if there bumping up there pay by £1.80 an hour to match boltons then there margins will increase on tender prices which in fairness means having to put in larger bids.
Same with commercial routes, they will either have to increase ticket prices to compensate for there increase in wages or there profit returns will be lower as remember there taking a loan out to buy bolton which will also have intrest on top and as well as buying buses to replace the fleet over the 2 years so by carrying on running on a low cost package will not bring them very much profit returns.
TUPE regulations will have to prevail during and after the takeover.
(09/07/2019 07:16)M60lad Wrote: [ -> ]More news regarding Diamond Northwest is that Atherton Depot is closing end of August with 26/27/29/35/126/132 and 300 transfering operations to Eccles Depot.
The original plan was to retain both Bolton & Atherton, as Bolton didn't have sufficient spare capacity to absorb Atherton's work & allocation as well. Obviously since only First Bolton's commercial work is now being acquired, this now leaves spare capacity at Bolton depot and the opportunity to reduce depot overhead costs.
As regards Diamond NW pay rates, even the £10:10 starting rate is quite a bit more than their West Midlands counterparts.
(09/07/2019 18:36)gilesbus1 Wrote: [ -> ]That may be the case but a lot of contracts have been won because of low driver wages, and low operating costs, by moving stuff to Bolton it causes a problem in that they no longer have a competitive advantage and some of the work is now effectively uneconomical to now operate, take the route 575 when operated from Bolton depot by First Manchester it was uneconomical, effectively by moving it to Atherton it was able to be run cost effectively, now potentially back at Bolton is liable to withdrawal again as it becomes uneconomical. Then take the Leigh - Tyldesley services when operated by First Manchester from Bolton uneconomical again moved to Atherton, Profitable, so potentially about 10-20 routes now will have to be slashed or withdrawn. Hardly a good move is it?
No it doesn't. Bolton's overheads are covered by it's existing commercial routes, come August it will have spare capacity for approx. 60 buses, thus Atherton's fleet is now being absorbed in to Bolton with little increase to Bolton's overhead, whilst completely eliminating the overhead and running costs associated with Atherton.
What Rotala are doing with Atherton, is what they have done with a number of West Midlands independent operators they've acquired over recent years, i.e. absorbed those businesses in to existing depots. Thus keeping depots at/near full capacity.
You also need to consider that with the addition of First Bolton commercial routes, Diamond NW now has a much more comprehensive network of routes covering a larger area of Manchester, with day / week & month passes being far more attractive to passengers. Also, it will bring far more higher frequency / commercial routes to Diamond NW, which *should* be earning decent money & help subsidize the poorer performing routes indirectly, without the need to simply cut them.
The First withdrawal's were not only due to routes being marginal, but also due to driver shortages and cutting them was seen as an easy way to remedy those problems.
(09/07/2019 23:21)Winston Wrote: [ -> ]No it doesn't. Bolton's overheads are covered by it's existing commercial routes, come August it will have spare capacity for approx. 60 buses, thus Atherton's fleet is now being absorbed in to Bolton with little increase to Bolton's overhead, whilst completely eliminating the overhead and running costs associated with Atherton.
What Rotala are doing with Atherton, is what they have done with a number of West Midlands independent operators they've acquired over recent years, i.e. absorbed those businesses in to existing depots. Thus keeping depots at/near full capacity.
You also need to consider that with the addition of First Bolton commercial routes, Diamond NW now has a much more comprehensive network of routes covering a larger area of Manchester, with day / week & month passes being far more attractive to passengers. Also, it will bring far more higher frequency / commercial routes to Diamond NW, which *should* be earning decent money & help subsidize the poorer performing routes indirectly, without the need to simply cut them.
The First withdrawal's were not only due to routes being marginal, but also due to driver shortages and cutting them was seen as an easy way to remedy those problems.
Well lets see how long they last then, when the previous Atherton Depot was closed most stuff in Leigh lasted weeks before First Manchester was withdrawing them, and seeing as you've recruited the same manager, exactly the same will happen, not to mention First Manchester's idiot decision to move all there local services in Leigh into Rushome its no longer car use is growing around Wigan is it?
Quite frankly both Diamond and First are stitching us up for poor service locally and by the way stuff your buses I'll be using my car in future? I certainly don't have time to stand and wait around after a bus has broken down for a replacement to be brought from Eccles or Rusholme, that is what I totally object to, Rusholme should have been demolished months ago and that Woodern Monstrosity at Eccles you can hardly call a garage is hardly a suitable operating garage. Plus neither of them are anywhere near Atherton or Leigh. Then if the pair of you haven't stopped punishing the People of South Wigan you decide to steel and deprive us of our electric buses for the 582 and fail to spell out how you will replace them and with what??? or is that another service your planning to withdraw or perhaps sell on to Stagecoach or Jim Stones???? seeing as that is all that is left.
I don't care if stuff is operated from Bolton but not Eccles or Rusholme its outrageous.
(10/07/2019 15:29)gilesbus1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well lets see how long they last then, when the previous Atherton Depot was closed most stuff in Leigh lasted weeks before First Manchester was withdrawing them, and seeing as you've recruited the same manager, exactly the same will happen, not to mention First Manchester's idiot decision to move all there local services in Leigh into Rushome its no longer car use is growing around Wigan is it?
Quite frankly both Diamond and First are stitching us up for poor service locally and by the way stuff your buses I'll be using my car in future? I certainly don't have time to stand and wait around after a bus has broken down for a replacement to be brought from Eccles or Rusholme, that is what I totally object to, Rusholme should have been demolished months ago and that Woodern Monstrosity at Eccles you can hardly call a garage is hardly a suitable operating garage. Plus neither of them are anywhere near Atherton or Leigh. Then if the pair of you haven't stopped punishing the People of South Wigan you decide to steel and deprive us of our electric buses for the 582 and fail to spell out how you will replace them and with what??? or is that another service your planning to withdraw or perhaps sell on to Stagecoach or Jim Stones???? seeing as that is all that is left.
I don't care if stuff is operated from Bolton but not Eccles or Rusholme its outrageous.
LOL, Thanks for the outburst:
1. I don't know why your getting your knickers in a twist & having a go at me for !?!
2. Use your car for all the difference it will make to me or anyone else for that matter.
3. I've not recruited any one, you won't be stuffing my buses...... & I've not deprived you of any electric buses / failed to confirm how I'll be replacing them.
4. The ex First DBNW Operations Manager will be under Bob Dunn, if he's not up to the job, doubt he'll be there long. You also don't know how much free rein he had at First & how much he was told to do under First.
(10/07/2019 21:06)Winston Wrote: [ -> ]LOL, Thanks for the outburst:
1. I don't know why your getting your knickers in a twist & having a go at me for !?!
2. Use your car for all the difference it will make to me or anyone else for that matter.
3. I've not recruited any one, you won't be stuffing my buses...... & I've not deprived you of any electric buses / failed to confirm how I'll be replacing them.
4. The ex First DBNW Operations Manager will be under Bob Dunn, if he's not up to the job, doubt he'll be there long. You also don't know how much free rein he had at First & how much he was told to do under First.
He did very little under First, fact, I bore witness to it ???? So yeah, will be interesting to see how long he lasts... The last one they got from First certainly didn't last long... ????
(10/07/2019 21:06)Winston Wrote: [ -> ]LOL, Thanks for the outburst:
1. I don't know why your getting your knickers in a twist & having a go at me for !?!
2. Use your car for all the difference it will make to me or anyone else for that matter.
3. I've not recruited any one, you won't be stuffing my buses...... & I've not deprived you of any electric buses / failed to confirm how I'll be replacing them.
4. The ex First DBNW Operations Manager will be under Bob Dunn, if he's not up to the job, doubt he'll be there long. You also don't know how much free rein he had at First & how much he was told to do under First.
Are you an Employee of Diamond Bus?