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First Manchester/Pioneer changes on VOSA today as below:

PC0003680/21 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between BURY and RAMSBOTTOM given service number 472/474 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/22 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bolton Moor Lane Bus Station and Stockport Bus Station given service number 22 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/35 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bury Interchange and Bolton Moor Lane Bus Station given service number 524/924 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/36 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Rochdale Bus Station and Bolton Moor Lane Bus Station given service number 471 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/38 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Shudehill Interchange and Manchester, Piccadilly given service number 88/89 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/39 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester, Trafford Centre and Bolton, Moor Lane Bus Station given service number 68 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/41 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Piccaddilly and Rochdale Bus Station given service number 58/59 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/43 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Piccadilly and Sholver Pearly Bank given service number 83 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/47 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Stalybridge Bus Station and Rochdale Bus station given service number 408 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/65 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Shudehill and Bury Interchange given service number 98 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/69 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester, Victoria Bus Station and Bury Interchange given service number 92/93/94 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/101 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Holts Estate and Middleton Bus Station given service number 415 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/102 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Shudehill Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 64 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/146 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Piccadilly and Bolton, Moor Lane Bus Station given service number 36/36N/39/39N effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/171 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Rochdale Bus Station and Middleton Bus Station given service number 719 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/191 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Holts Estate and Fitton Hill, Community Centre given service number 425 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/255 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Shudehill Bus Station and Manchester Trafford Centre given service number 110 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/276 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Bury Interchange and Bolton Moor Lane Bus Station given service number 510 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/436 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Shudehill Bus Station and Rochdale Bus Station given service number 17/17A/18 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/442 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Rochdale Bus Station and Stansfield Wardle given service number 454/457 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/493 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Manchester Piccadilly and Huddersfield Bus Station given service number 180/184/184X/X80 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/534 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Middleton Bus Station and Ashton Bus Station given service number 419 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0003680/632 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Bolton and Bradley Road given service number 536 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0003680/735 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Oldham Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 410/411 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0003680/815 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Pendleton Shopping Centre and Whitefield Metrolink given service number 95 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/816 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Oldham Bus Station and Hills Hill Station given service number 406 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0003680/817 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Oldham Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 402 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0003680/880 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between ALTRINCHAM INTERCHANGE and SALE, NORTHENDEN, RUSHOLME given service number 41 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0003680/882 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between MANCHESTER PICCADILLY and EAST DIDSBURY given service number 42 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0003680/911 - FIRST MANCHESTER LTD T/A FIRST, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: OLDHAM BUS STATION
Finish Point: MIDDLETON BUS STATION
Via: Royton, Mills hill
Service Number: 412
Service Type: Limited Stop
Effective Date: 12-APR-2015
Other Details: Monday to Saturday

PC0004736/10 - WILLIAM HAMER & PARTNERS T/A CUMBRIA CLASSIC COACHES, BOWBERHEAD FARM, RAVENSTONEDALE, KIRKBY STEPHEN, CA17 4NL
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Kirkby Stephen, Cumbria
Finish Point: Kendal, Black Hall Road Bus Station
Via: Shap, Orton, Tebay, Grayrigg
Service Number: 570
Service Type: Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 19-FEB-2015
Other Details: Thursdays only, one journey

PC0004846/27 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Manchester,Picadilly and Thameside Hospital given service number 220 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0004846/29 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton under Lyne Bus Station and Hyde given service number 387/388/389 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0004846/34 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus Station and Ashton Bus Station given service number 338 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0004846/36 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus station and Ashton Bus Station given service number 331/332/333 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0004846/39 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus Station and Yew Tree, Tennyson Avenue given service number 41 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0004846/40 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton - U - Lyne Bus STN and Ashton - U - Lyne Bus STN given service number 393 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0004846/41 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton under Lyne and Hyde given service number 346 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0004846/42 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton - U - Lyne Bus STN and Ashton - U - Lyne Bus STN given service number 38/39 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0004846/43 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Hyde Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 343/344 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0004846/44 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus Station and Carrbrook School given service number 348 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0004846/45 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton under Lyne Bus Station and Denton Pendle Road given service number 345 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0004846/46 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 350 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Timetable.

PC0004846/51 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Variation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus Station and Uppermill given service number 353/354 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0004846/106 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Ashton Bus Station and Ashton Bus Station given service number 335 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

PC0004846/111 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Ashton under Lyne Bus Station and Crowhill given service number 339 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

A bumper day on VOSA with no fewer than 67 entries - April is certainly looking like a busy month.

(17/02/2015 16:41)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]As Jimbo partially guessed, the 348 is evenings only. All commercial services (inc. the 2335MS from Ashton!) will still be run by First. Stotts will still run M-Sat 407s, its just Sundays/PH that has been won by Stagecoach.
Commercial changes are now coming in from First. Potential minor losses of work from Oldham and Bolton, but not Pioneer are hardly affected commercially.

I thought that might be the case regarding the 407. Stotts have just taken on a handful of new drivers so it seemed strange that they were actually loosing some work. I seem to remember originally that Stotts won the mon- sat 407's with Sundays and bank holidays remaining with Swans. It was some months later that swans through in the towel and Stotts took it on. I don't recall Stotts operating on bank holidays though.

The 407 was driven by abset driver; he will likely TUPE to Stagecoach

Looking at today's changes, I'm wondering whether Stagecoach will take over the evening/Sunday 343 service from First, which would also be extended to Gee Cross.

PC0003681/372 - GREATER MANCHESTER BUSES SOUTH LTD T/A STAGECOACH MANCHESTER, HEAD OFFICE, HYDE ROAD, ARDWICK, MANCHESTER, M12 6JS
Variation Accepted: Operating between Gee Cross and Oldham given service number 343 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0004846/43 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Hyde Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 343/344 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

(17/02/2015 18:00)jimbo Wrote: [ -> ]The 407 was driven by abset driver; he will likely TUPE to Stagecoach

I'm slightly confused. The 407 is worked by 3 regular drivers (as are all Stotts services). If they loose the 407 or any other tender the drivers would simply work a different service. Why would they go to Stagecoach under TUPE?

(17/02/2015 18:40)SF07 Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at today's changes, I'm wondering whether Stagecoach will take over the evening/Sunday 343 service from First, which would also be extended to Gee Cross.

PC0003681/372 - GREATER MANCHESTER BUSES SOUTH LTD T/A STAGECOACH MANCHESTER, HEAD OFFICE, HYDE ROAD, ARDWICK, MANCHESTER, M12 6JS
Variation Accepted: Operating between Gee Cross and Oldham given service number 343 effective from 12-Apr-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC0004846/43 - FIRST PIONEER BUS LTD T/A FIRST ROCHDALE, WALLSHAW STREET, OLDHAM, OL1 3TR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Hyde Bus Station and Oldham Bus Station given service number 343/344 effective from 12-Apr-2015.

I suspect this is the case although I was told by a Stotts driver that they have gained the Saturday daytime 343 (formally with JPT) from Stagecoach so another operator could infact be doing evenings/Sundays and Stagecoach have registered a variation rather than a cancellation as they still operate a school service journey but who knows.
Hopefully things will become clearer in the coming days/weeks.

(17/02/2015 19:30)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]I think you are right. Surely, TUPE only applies if an Operator goes out of business or at least closes an Operating Centre (eg. First Wigan), not just because individual drivers want to stay on the same route. Where would you draw the line? Send a Solo up to Lees and get the drivers to sign on at their old workplace instead of transferring to Middleton (or Ashton)?

Exactly. As I understand it drivers normally transfer under the TUPE agreement if an operator is taken over or sells or gives certain parts of a business to another operator. I don't think it applies when an operator simply looses a contract otherwise it would all get very complicated.
It's also very unlikely given the way the bigger ops operate that any dedicated driver would switch and be able to JUST work the particular tender gained. Not to mention the pay decrease from drivers moving from First/Stagecoach to MCT

I know very early days, but does anyone have any clue as to what first are doing with the 510, has the 511 gone and have they brought back the 510? Is the 536 going meaning an increased frequency ? And lastly is this route getting a depot change I'm wondering. I'm just curious

(17/02/2015 19:30)Dentonian Wrote: [ -> ]I think you are right. Surely, TUPE only applies if an Operator goes out of business or at least closes an Operating Centre (eg. First Wigan), not just because individual drivers want to stay on the same route. Where would you draw the line? Send a Solo up to Lees and get the drivers to sign on at their old workplace instead of transferring to Middleton (or Ashton)?

Drivers can transfer from the existing company to the new company of a service/contract (it could result in them being made redundant with their current employer as they're losing work).

"The TUPE regulations can apply when a company is sold, activities are outsourced, brought in-house, transferred or a contract for services is moved from one provider to another."
(Credit - http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/d/r/Han...Guide.pdf)

Does anyone (Dentionian) know what the changes to 415 actually are, I suppose hoping the every 20 min frequency throughout being reintroduced could be a long shot, now this service has gone every 30mins some peak journies are running full to capacity now from Oldham Bus Station meaning that when the bus gets to the College the College kids waiting there are left behind because the driver can't get them on, surely First should have thought that with them reducing the frequency bigger buses would be needed instead of Solos, for some reason Streetlites haven't been triled on the route and probably would have been ideal or maybe First could have sourced some bigger single deckers for the route.

The other thing with 415 which I've heard from both drivers and passengers is that it isn't carrying all that many passengers on the route from Oldham Bus Station-Lees and return with most journies carring fresh air apart from the driver