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The residents around Stanney are hating Stagecoach? So have you done a survey or something to back that up.

(24/08/2018 20:17)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]Where do you work that out? It takes 35 minutes between Chester and Eport (going via COaks). Thats 3 buses extra.

Usually in my head, sometimes on paper, usually referring to current timetables.

If it were to be a standalone route, yes it would use 3 buses extra, but as T42 PVM was saying, extending an existing route instead might mean they can do it with fewer buses, something like this:

4 - X4 - 4 - X4
58 13 28 43 Mold
59 11 29 41 Chester
--- 46 --- 16 EPort

--- 50 --- 20 EPort
06 25 36 55 Cstr
08 23 38 53 Mold

This might be quite tight, but it only uses 2 vehicles more than the current.

If its correct that the 82 is getting withdrawn instead of being moved to Winsford this would mean no extra Buses would be needed than what is currently there.

Valandil, if they want to serve Cheshire Oaks, they need more time. If they are running like an X2, yeah. Certainly, 25 minutes but they aren't. Cheshire Oaks is a massive delay hotspot. I admit I am going partially off existing timetables but unless you want major delays, you will put 3 buses on the route. The only way they could POSSIBLY run with 25 minutes is going via the M53 but that again, is a big risk as that can get easily delayed.

If Arriva want to jeopardise the existing X4 route, yeah, 2 buses will do. If they have any braincells, they will use 3 as the delay risk is VERY high and the timings would be far too tight. They will have to be giving a few minutes in Chester as well as buses are already quite often delayed coming into Chester. So, to sum up. Time is needed in Mold (as current) due to the delays on the welsh part of the route. Time is needed in Chester as even on current times, buses can struggle to get in on time and time is needed in Ellesmere Port for obvious layover between trips and as Cheshire Oaks is so busy at times, they need a small bit of time to recover.

So much time is needed. Your proposed timings show that Mold had 5 minutes between trips. Which clearly isn't enough. That is how long the 3 had and that struggled to keep to time.

I do see what you mean, sometimes extending an existing route can work to reduce PVR but in this instance, the journey time is too long between Chester and Eport for it to work in this way. If they made the 12/13 extend to Eport, that would work with 2 buses as it has a lot longer layover in Chester. Infact, I don't know why they picked the X4. The 12/13 would be much better timing wise.

All these experts its a wonder bus companies aren't millionaires?

(24/08/2018 21:35)iMarkeh Wrote: [ -> ]I do see what you mean, sometimes extending an existing route can work to reduce PVR but in this instance, the journey time is too long between Chester and Eport for it to work in this way. If they made the 12/13 extend to Eport, that would work with 2 buses as it has a lot longer layover in Chester. Infact, I don't know why they picked the X4. The 12/13 would be much better timing wise.

I definitely agree that more time is preferable, and extending the 12/13 would on the face of it look like a better option (other things being equal) as from memory I think they have around 20 minutes between runs at Chester. 1hr20mins would be a good amount of time to get to Ellesmere Port and back with some layover too. I wonder why they didn't do that and chose the X4 instead.

(24/08/2018 23:32)bus401 Wrote: [ -> ]All these experts its a wonder bus companies aren't millionaires?

Given their track record, it is clear that Arriva Chester has little knowledge of how to run a bus company or they would know things like not trying to kill off bus routes, not having extortionate prices, and the biggest of all, if you want to keep any passengers, don't keep chopping and changing routes every 30 seconds. Just because Arriva as a whole makes a lot of money, it doesn't mean individual depots make much does it! Chester could make 1k profit but places like Green Lane could make 30k profit. You wouldn't know unless you either had good contacts inside the company or were the finance person for the Arriva Wales area.

Arriva in Chester have never been the brightest of sparks. Chester has lots of ways companies can make money. Just Arriva doesn't listen and they seem to constantly get it so badly wrong. If Arriva actually stopped and thought about it. They are missing out on so many ways to capitalise. Let me give you 1 example. Route 4 from Chester to Mold is timed in such a way that Townlynx have to follow behind about 10 minutes later picking up all the school kids for Mold Campus. If Arriva re-timed their services slightly, they could get funding from Flintshire councils to take the school kids. It would take the route off Townlynx as well which in the long run, if Arriva did this on quite a few routes (bearing in mind there is a bus from Broughton village to Saltney High and Chester Catholic high. 12 and 13 could take these trips on if they timed it all up properly), it could in the long run affect Townlynx and put a competitor out of business. Though that is a long term plan, it starts with simple timetabling. Can you explain why Arriva aren't changing their times to enable them to technically get free money (money for carrying school kids and the slight 4 minute extension to Mold Campus)?

(24/08/2018 23:36)Valandil Wrote: [ -> ]I definitely agree that more time is preferable, and extending the 12/13 would on the face of it look like a better option (other things being equal) as from memory I think they have around 20 minutes between runs at Chester. 1hr20mins would be a good amount of time to get to Ellesmere Port and back with some layover too. I wonder why they didn't do that and chose the X4 instead.

This somewhat backs up my above point. The 12/13 serve areas like Broughton Villages, Sandycroft, Penyffordd as well as Stagecoach areas like Saltney and Handbridge (Which if they want to declare war, this could reduce Stagecoach day ticket for people using the 16 to connect onto the 1 & X8). The X4 serves Mold, Buckley and Ewloe (all places where people would use Stagecoach route 5. Given the 5 is tendered, it makes no odds to Stagecoach if the numbers drop). Other than that, you have Hawarden and Chester Business Park. Clearly there is a big market for travel between Hawarden and Cheshire Oaks/Eport which has only just been noticed.

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Today was the first day of operation of the new 12/13 circular services from Chester to Mold via Connahs Quay / Penyffordd.

Here at Mold is Solo 675 working the new 12 service to Chester via Penyffordd <photo1>

and Cadet 2520 working the new 13 service to Chester via Connahs Quay <photo2>

I was surprised that the destinations did inlude any 'vias' which I would have thought was an important factor in this service.

X4 has been Registered confirming the change:
PG0007245/154 Registered
ARRIVA CYMRU LTD
Route: Mold Bus Station to Ellesmere Port Bus Station
Service number: X4 (X4)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 28 Oct 2018

I have heard from quite a few sources that Arriva have won the G3 Blacon-Greyhound circular. Unsure when this starts but given the Stagecoach tender was only for a year, I would assume that Arriva will be starting as soon as possible. This G3 branding will be good to see on an Arriva bus... I think it would look odd. Oh well, gone are the days of regular drivers, I assume now it will be anyone and everyone.