Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website

An inyteresting read was last weeks Coach & Bus week which makes some intertesting reading in what the future will be for the company and into what its mistakes where in the past.

NEW BUSES : Orders for teh next few years are to be heavily Single-deck based as a result of the last two yewars concentration on deckers because of the London Olympic shuttles and TfL tendering requirements. The ordesr will be split 50/50 between Volvo Wrightbus and ADL combinations in order to get delivery dates. There is no indication as to how big the order may be or where it might go. Electric vehicles are being investigated as a re further Hybrids, a trial may occur with (an) Electric vehicle(s) in a location.

FARES : It is planned to cut fares in several subsiduaries during the course of the next year, Manchester within the M60 has started that and it will be trailled also in other area's.
The problem before Giles Feranley highlights is that HQ was too involved in decision making including fare rises and nothing was left to local managers to what suited a particular area best, thsi will now end and Regional Directors and the managers of operating subsiduaries will be given more control to make decisions for themselves.

Gilse Fearnley admits he relished the chance to restore what he called a troubled company as he says it will be a major task being rolled out over the next few years.

DISPOSALS : Wigan was unique in it did make a profit the reason there for siposal was that the fleet needed replacing which they wanted to do but that would have mean't a direct hit on profitability which is something the Group can't face right now, when disposals are the order of the day.

No expansions at the moment are due while a plan of fixing existing business's is carried out, the number of expanding independents who have clawed milleage off them under teh old Moir Lockhead based management is a concern to them. The other disposals planned which they will still not reveal despite leaked reports because they stress its difficult and adds to insecurity of staff, make lower margins generally eg only small profits or losses.

There is an admission that all units will now not be sold by the year end.

There is also the statement that once the restructuring exercise has been completed and the core parts of the business arte running correctly again then they may look at bolt on acquisions again (If anything's left I guess by that time).

They also state there is no issue in the USA that business is OK and there is a hope of adding more school contract work there.

COACH OPERATIONS: There will be no expansion of Greyhound as the new management have no wish to become a national coach operator.

FTR : It is unlikely any more FTR's will be bought by FirstGroup and there re-deployment
between Leeds and Bradford is an exercise to try to gain growth on that particular corridor.

Growth is expected as a result of the Sheffield Bus partnership and that is where a lot of future investment may go to First South Yorkshire.

GENERAL COMMENT

These are comments that I am making myself in response to this and with other issues that appear now to be the case or I have heard elsewhere.

I think its clear that things will move in the right direction and that a lot of systems failures existing in the Head Office down system that previously existed, what is interesting is that Giles Fearnley doesn't work out of Aberdeen now which might lead to the question what future the Head Office at Aberdeen might have at least in terms of buses when Giles Fearnley is a Yorkshire man and probably works out of Hunslet Park.

On another website to add to the speculation of what units are going for sale there are various rumours about a number of depots with First Scotland East that are said to make losses in adition to Dalkeith last year which may be sold or closed, as yet there is no confirmation so until we have it I don't want to make further comment on this or which depots they may be.

overall thats good just one thing, if they start going for mostly single decker buses then we have another arriva on our hands with services at bursting point

(19/01/2013 09:23)bolton bus basher Wrote: [ -> ]overall thats good just one thing, if they start going for mostly single decker buses then we have another arriva on our hands with services at bursting point

I have mixed feelings about this, good to hear that they will be dual sourcing Volvo/Wright & ADL for new vehicles.
First have a sizeable fleet of 10 & 11 metre Single Decks to replace before 2015/2016.
I would still like to see Firstbus become a smaller company, by which I mean operating in fewer parts of the UK.
I am hoping we will hear more news of disposals soon.
Rumours are rife as to what will be sold/closed down, Is there anyone on this site who has a realistic insight into which subsidiaries are loss-making/breaking even/producing profits below target?

I don't think its that simple in the case of disposals, what I suspect is that the list that was issued has most if not all the planned disposals in England, as Wales is about to get a new batch of Enviro Enviro200's and has already been slimlined and with the collapse of Veolia as well is safe for now. However Scotland opens questions especially the Scotland East division as it is suggested that two operating licenses there could be made into one as Lothian is still having a major effect on routes which terminate in Edinburgh along with other operators that operate in that teritory, however Galashields depot at least is safe but a question mark may hang over some of the others.

Other options might be to ofload all of First Midland and another option may be to ofload Eastern Counties or Essex, both of which suffer heavy competition especially from GoAhead and from Arriva owned Municipal operations in the case of Essex. In some cases however it is suggested that some loss making depots need to be held onto as they are integral with what is profitable that is around them, eg if it had been a depot in Bradford or Leeds that mas making a loss it would be held onto as its in the middle of a territory and to release it could effect other depots profitability, with Wigan it was easy as in was on the edge and rather devorcved from Manchester and with Chester/Rock Ferry it was easy because it was devorced from all other operations and was reallu a self contained unit, this is the sort of unit Giles Fearnley suggests that might be liable to go, eg small devorced units that are not core in the operations of other depots that only make low profits or break even or losses, which to turn around would be a management distraction and which are suffering perhaps from an influx of other major operators or independents from surrounding areas. I would sugget that something that might be an indication is where no vehicles or very few are resprayed into FirstGroups new bus livery and where investment in stock has been effectively none existant.

In regards to the topic of investment in new vehicles I would suggest that the need is to replace Dart SLF's/Scania L112CRL's and Volv0 B10BLE's so the replacement stock plan is right for now, Lets not forget those fleets that have deckers are now probably not due to recieve anything for a few years such as Manchester and Leeds, or only limited stocks for replacement of the classes involved.

(19/01/2013 16:04)gilesbus1 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think its that simple in the case of disposals, what I suspect is that the list that was issued has most if not all the planned disposals in England, as Wales is about to get a new batch of Enviro Enviro200's and has already been slimlined and with the collapse of Veolia as well is safe for now. However Scotland opens questions especially the Scotland East division as it is suggested that two operating licenses there could be made into one as Lothian is still having a major effect on routes which terminate in Edinburgh along with other operators that operate in that teritory, however Galashields depot at least is safe but a question mark may hang over some of the others.

Other options might be to ofload all of First Midland and another option may be to ofload Eastern Counties or Essex, both of which suffer heavy competition especially from GoAhead and from Arriva owned Municipal operations in the case of Essex. In some cases however it is suggested that some loss making depots need to be held onto as they are integral with what is profitable that is around them, eg if it had been a depot in Bradford or Leeds that mas making a loss it would be held onto as its in the middle of a territory and to release it could effect other depots profitability, with Wigan it was easy as in was on the edge and rather devorcved from Manchester and with Chester/Rock Ferry it was easy because it was devorced from all other operations and was reallu a self contained unit, this is the sort of unit Giles Fearnley suggests that might be liable to go, eg small devorced units that are not core in the operations of other depots that only make low profits or break even or losses, which to turn around would be a management distraction and which are suffering perhaps from an influx of other major operators or independents from surrounding areas. I would sugget that something that might be an indication is where no vehicles or very few are resprayed into FirstGroups new bus livery and where investment in stock has been effectively none existant.

In regards to the topic of investment in new vehicles I would suggest that the need is to replace Dart SLF's/Scania L112CRL's and Volv0 B10BLE's so the replacement stock plan is right for now, Lets not forget those fleets that have deckers are now probably not due to recieve anything for a few years such as Manchester and Leeds, or only limited stocks for replacement of the classes involved.

I wonder whether Haverfordwest & Hereford (being small and geographically isolated) would be obvious operations for disposal?
I have my fingers crossed re Scotland East (hoping for sell offs!) rumours abound about Musselburgh/North Berwick possible close down.
Agree re Single Deck Replacement priorities, Double Deck requirements can be met by ongoing cascades from London.

I've also heard in regards to Scotland East, and yes that is what I had heard as well that Livingston is also subject to disposal and makes heavy losses.

Thus the end of what was Eastern Scottish should it be the case.

Divestments are continuing after all, with Kidderminster and Redditch now going to Rotala. Rotala have some routes in Redditch and quite a few in the West Midlands. However, as Rotala are small in national terms this takeover may well be cleared without fuss.

Despite the 200 new deckers for Leeds and Manchester ex-Olympics, and a few buses for London - some for contract gains rather than fleet replacement - there have been few new buses otherwise recently. I wonder when these will resume. Apparently South Yorkshire is due some and another 100 double-deckers are due for Leeds.

(26/01/2013 20:21)Metroline1511 Wrote: [ -> ]Divestments are continuing after all, with Kidderminster and Redditch now going to Rotala. Rotala have some routes in Redditch and quite a few in the West Midlands. However, as Rotala are small in national terms this takeover may well be cleared without fuss.

Despite the 200 new deckers for Leeds and Manchester ex-Olympics, and a few buses for London - some for contract gains rather than fleet replacement - there have been few new buses otherwise recently. I wonder when these will resume. Apparently South Yorkshire is due some and another 100 double-deckers are due for Leeds.

Leeds are due around 100 new DD & 20 New SDs,Wales are due about 10 new Enviro 200s,South Yorkshire are due around 60 to be split between rotherham & sheffield (im guessing there new streetlite is the first of this order to be delivered) plus glasgows ment to be getting more new buses,i could see manchester getting more buses plus if metro have there way the likes of halifax & huddersfield could see some new buses as well

(26/01/2013 22:02)Wright Eclipse Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Metroline1511' pid='27814' dateline='1359231696']
Leeds are due around 100 new DD & 20 New SDs,Wales are due about 10 new Enviro 200s,South Yorkshire are due around 60 to be split between rotherham & sheffield (im guessing there new streetlite is the first of this order to be delivered) plus glasgows ment to be getting more new buses,i could see manchester getting more buses plus if metro have there way the likes of halifax & huddersfield could see some new buses as well

Aberdeen and Glasgow are due 23 and 22 single deckers respectively in the next few weeks.

(19/01/2013 16:04)gilesbus1 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think its that simple in the case of disposals, what I suspect is that the list that was issued has most if not all the planned disposals in England, as Wales is about to get a new batch of Enviro Enviro200's and has already been slimlined and with the collapse of Veolia as well is safe for now. However Scotland opens questions especially the Scotland East division as it is suggested that two operating licenses there could be made into one as Lothian is still having a major effect on routes which terminate in Edinburgh along with other operators that operate in that teritory, however Galashields depot at least is safe but a question mark may hang over some of the others.

Galashiels (no 'd') is currently receiving ten ADL Enviro300s chiefly for the trunk route X95 between Edinburgh and Carlisle, although they have also appeared on the 60 Rail Link service between Galashiels, Duns and Berwick. Six have arrived so far with four still due. No fleetnames are presently carried but they do carry the little speech-bubble stickers on the sides which say "I'm cared for by the Galashiels depot team". Galashiels have also commenced repaints into the new First livery with four saloons (Scanias 65742-44 and Volvo B7RLE 69263) and one decker (Gemini 37133) currently outshopped.

Although the 60 is in the main run by the Scanias and Volvo B7RLEs, there's plenty of interest on it just now; the Royale and Gemini deckers are frequent performers on the route, and some of the Volvo B10BLEs transferred from Dalkeith when that depot closed are currently putting in appearances too.