Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website

I've created this thread basically because the recent First West Coast revelation affects more than just First Group.

The implications are considerable, because the DfT's admission must now put the 2013 franchising programme in jeopardy. Four franchises were due to be renewed next year – Essex Thameside (currently c2c), Greater Western, Thameslink and East Coast, but the letting processes are now suspended.

A review will be undertaken by Eurostar chairman Richard Brown, and examine the wider rail franchising programme. The DfT said it will look in detail at whether changes are needed to the way risk is assessed and to the bidding and evaluation processes, 'and at how to get the other franchise competitions back on track as soon as possible'.

This will report back by the end of December.

So, it appears franchising will be suspended entirely until at least early 2013.

Looking at the poll results so far, 75% in favour of renationalistion - the is the same figure given by the poll results from the RMT recently.

Renationalisation will be more costly and even more time consuming than the present position we have , we have to look at saving money , not draining more of it down the drain on a changeover from private to nationalised .

(03/10/2012 11:56)wirralbus Wrote: [ -> ]Renationalisation will be more costly and even more time consuming than the present position we have , we have to look at saving money , not draining more of it down the drain on a changeover from private to nationalised .

I don't agree. East Coast has performed tremendously well with minimal cost associated with the takeover from National Express.

The industry is so tightly regulated at the moment, it is effectively still nationalised, except private companies are able to skim some of the profits before giving the rest to the government.

If the government already specifies:

1) Rate fares can increase
2) Rolling stock that a franchise must use
3) The terms of the timetable
4) Station standards
5) Terms of railway pension scheme(s)
6) Number of staff they are allowed to have

Then you have local authorities paying for (out of DfT transport funding and council tax):

1) Enhanced timetable in their area
2) More seats on certain services
3) Improved station facilities
4) Integrated Ticketing, e.g. PTE seasons etc.

Then surely the government may as well run it themselves and take 100% of the profits and save the estimated £100million spent by the DfT on just arranging a single franchise bidding process?

Why exactly do we need First/Arriva/Stagecoach etc, when the government can do it itself. They are even doing quite a good job of East Coast! Better than NXEC!

Being a state-owned company also allows a company to become more transparent, (Freedom of Information Act applies etc), and customers are able to review what's going on internally, and where money is being spent - and rightly question things if necessary.

Noticed this has appeared

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/39666

(03/10/2012 13:49)First Class Wrote: [ -> ]Why exactly do we need First/Arriva/Stagecoach etc, when the government can do it itself. They are even doing quite a good job of East Coast! Better than NXEC!

I'm afraid not:

Wikipedia Wrote:The latest performance figures to be released by the Office of Rail Regulation rate East Coast's performance below that of its predecessor. Over the third quarter of the 2010/11 financial year East Coast achieved 81.7% PPM and a moving annual average of 83.3%.

(03/10/2012 11:56)wirralbus Wrote: [ -> ]Renationalisation will be more costly and even more time consuming than the present position we have , we have to look at saving money , not draining more of it down the drain on a changeover from private to nationalised .

Err, where did you get that from??

Fact; the like for like costs of running the national railway network since privatisation is 50% MORE expensive that British Rail managed on in the 1980's. Even John Major has long admitted that they got it worng. (Source HoC Transport SElect Committee Reports ad nauseum)

FACT; If nationalised, the 'profit' being creamed-off by Stagecoach, First etc. would be available for re-investment/tax cuts/jobs etc. rather than going as dividends.

FACT; around 50% (source Audit Commission) of dividends/surpluses leave our shores for Franch, Netherlands, Germany etc and thus are not directly available for re-investment in UK Plc.

No brainer really.

Renationalisation needn't be costly - just take them in house when they expire.

Rail franchising is so full of micro management from the DfT these days , they are told you have to have this , and you have to stop there this many times a day , its not a calk walk for the franchise holders these days .

Without the Virgin marketing team where would West Coast be now ?

(03/10/2012 14:33)DVL418 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03/10/2012 11:56)wirralbus Wrote: [ -> ]Renationalisation will be more costly and even more time consuming than the present position we have , we have to look at saving money , not draining more of it down the drain on a changeover from private to nationalised .

Err, where did you get that from??

Fact; the like for like costs of running the national railway network since privatisation is 50% MORE expensive that British Rail managed on in the 1980's. Even John Major has long admitted that they got it worng. (Source HoC Transport SElect Committee Reports ad nauseum)

FACT; If nationalised, the 'profit' being creamed-off by Stagecoach, First etc. would be available for re-investment/tax cuts/jobs etc. rather than going as dividends.

FACT; around 50% (source Audit Commission) of dividends/surpluses leave our shores for Franch, Netherlands, Germany etc and thus are not directly available for re-investment in UK Plc.

No brainer really.

I agree whole-heartedly with what you say - it's just common sense!