(23/01/2013 15:13)mathias Wrote: [ -> ]4074? (S244 JUA)? Gotta disagree with you on that one.
It may have been fully P&P'd with Interurban, new seats and LEDs, but in my opinion, I'd say this is one of Bootle's WORST DLAs.
Pitiful acceleration and slow top speed is right up there with the awful 4028 (S268 JUA).
4028 is unusually on the 58 this evening!
(23/01/2013 16:00)MPTE1955 Wrote: [ -> ]The DLA's basically do what they should do
I disagree with that. Their poor bottom-deck seating layout isn't good for many passengers, particularly the less-abled type. They also have poor fuel consumption, along with most examples having slow acceleration. Many passengers, drivers and depot managers won't miss them when they leave the fleet!
(23/01/2013 16:34)3111 Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree with that. Their poor bottom-deck seating layout isn't good for many passengers, particularly the less-abled type. They also have poor fuel consumption, along with most examples having slow acceleration. Many passengers, drivers and depot managers won't miss them when they leave the fleet!
There are still 23 seats downstairs on a DLA and of those ten are fully accessible without steps. That's precisely ten more than the step-entrance R-WVRs had and the DLAs outclass those in terms of ride quality, internal brightness and cleanliness and legroom. They also have space for prams which the R-WVRs didn't and were constantly the subject of complaints from passengers on the 61 in that regard.
I know they're not perfect and some (not as many as is suggested, but some) struggle with speed, but from a general passenger viewpoint, they are good buses. I've never heard a passenger complain and indeed have overheard praise for them compared with what went before.
(23/01/2013 16:59)507009 Wrote: [ -> ] (23/01/2013 16:34)3111 Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree with that. Their poor bottom-deck seating layout isn't good for many passengers, particularly the less-abled type. They also have poor fuel consumption, along with most examples having slow acceleration. Many passengers, drivers and depot managers won't miss them when they leave the fleet!
There are still 23 seats downstairs on a DLA and of those ten are fully accessible without steps. That's precisely ten more than the step-entrance R-WVRs had and the DLAs outclass those in terms of ride quality, internal brightness and cleanliness and legroom. They also have space for prams which the R-WVRs didn't and were constantly the subject of complaints from passengers on the 61 in that regard.
I know they're not perfect and some (not as many as is suggested, but some) struggle with speed, but from a general passenger viewpoint, they are good buses. I've never heard a passenger complain and indeed have overheard praise for them compared with what went before.
Well, we're in two different situations... I've heard plenty of passengers complaining about them in Bootle, Birkenhead and Rhyl - including a member of my family (less-able), who has hurt theirself climbing up the steps to the non-less-able-friendly area when the seats that are able for them have been taken. An ex-Skelmersdale-based driver who I know told me that they weren't loved there when they replaced Palatine 2s on the 375/385 - trend?
Bootle's manager wants them gone as soon as possible, according to a friend (driver) of mine, due to their poor fuel consumption and I know about a few drivers (and no doubt that there's more!) who will be glad to see the back of them!
Yes, they're much better than the Palatine 2s that they replaced - but not much better. They still limit the less-able passengers a lot, whereas I guess that Palatine 2s limited them totally due to their step at the entrance.
Going off-topic here, but I know the Palatines at Skelmersdale which came from Birkenhead were loathed by the passengers. Such was the uproar, there were several local newspaper articles lamenting the loss of the town's accessible bus fleet in favour of 'cast offs'. Things certainly quietened down when the DAFs arrived to replace them. It was only when they transferred to Southport that the 375/385 reliability started to suffer.
What the drivers think of buses doesn't really bother me in all honesty as the bus services are ultimately ran for the passengers and not them. The 61 (and indeed 56) attract high loads in peak times which is enough to warrant a decker. Clearly they aren't in the market for brand new buses as relatively low-profile routes, so I think the DLAs are fine for the time being. At least they allow wheelchairs and prams on board (a significant problem when the R-WVRs ran the 61) and have some easily accessed seats.
As the DB250 chassis varies little between step entrance and low floor format, can I highlight that fuel consumption on the older step entrance batch's such as the long gone N-DWY's, R-CKO's and so forth were never discussed as an issue. As a number of the R-CKO's and similar Palatine II bodied counterparts remain in use at present, I'd be very surprised to see any difference in terms of fuel consumption should the two be compared. Both types of vehicles have lead similar lives, having spent the initial part of their lives in London for varying periods before transfer North.
I, having now experienced a fair share of the North West's former DLA batch, can say I would be happy to ride these over ALMOST any other double deck vehicle of any of the North West's fleet. I say almost, the B7TL/ALX400's at Southport and Speke are in my opinion a batch of buses which offer everything from uncompromising quality of ride, warmth, comfort and their exquisite Volvo/Voith partnership powerpack. Similarly for me, the DLA class offer this in abundance. Their ride, quite simply, wipes the floor with anything ADL can offer in double or single deck format despite a considerable age gap in combination with a very warm and inviting interior offering capacity in spades. Agreed, their lower deck layout is not ideal though still offers seating for the infirm, elderly and those with children.
For me, this particular type comes in for much undeserved critique. These vehicles could and probably should outlive the apparent 15 year rule. I hope their apparent high book value ensures a good number will be sold on for further use when their final call for duty with Arriva comes. One thing is for sure, they still have plenty of miles left in the tank.
There are people that like the DLA's and people that don't, as a regular user of the 61 I have come to like them, and they decent buses they certainly out do the postively aged palatines for comfort and access. Tonight for example I had the good 4074 with a nice comfortable ride downstairs, and I would rather ride one of these than any dart, or rattly boring pulsar. They vary like anything else in quality and I also have never heard a passenger complain about them. True there are better buses around but there are a lot more worse. Ultimately, people like what they like and nobody has the right to tell them that they are wrong.
(23/01/2013 17:44)K101HUM Wrote: [ -> ]For me, this particular type comes in for much undeserved critique. These vehicles could and probably should outlive the apparent 15 year rule. I hope their apparent high book value ensures a good number will be sold on for further use when their final call for duty with Arriva comes. One thing is for sure, they still have plenty of miles left in the tank.
London is currently struggling to find takers for their surplus DLA's so I imagine most will see the curtain come down for them when they leave Arriva NW
Bare in mind though that any London examples have not been refurbished to the standard of the NW examples either internally or externally including the removal of the central door. If the remaining London examples are surplus, there's also the potential that they're not being maintained and looked after to a standard as high as up here where they're in front line, daily service.
its one of them its a 50/50 type bus 50 percent are lovley like some of the bolton examples however others are bad and i cant wait to see the back of like some of the rhyl examples, i myself think some of these can last more than 15 years but its a wait and see game
I was once told on here that the 15 year rule didn't apply to deckers owing to their capacity and that is why we still see R reg examples in service today.