Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website

(03/11/2020 15:14)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]It's worth remembering central government give bus operators money or there would be no buses

That is false

(03/11/2020 17:42)SK15 GZG Wrote: [ -> ]That is false

https://www.route-one.net/news/covid-19-...explained/
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/almos...es-running
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/covi...20481.html

issue is TFGM got the money in Manchester and used it as a power tool

(03/11/2020 17:52)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.route-one.net/news/covid-19-...explained/
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/almos...es-running
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/covi...20481.html

issue is TFGM got the money in Manchester and used it as a power tool

That's a one off bailout during a national lockdown. You said:

(03/11/2020 15:14)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]It's worth remembering central government give bus operators money or there would be no buses

Your poorly worded statement implies the government give bus operators money on a regular basis which is false

(03/11/2020 18:25)SK15 GZG Wrote: [ -> ]That's a one off bailout during a national lockdown. You said:


Your poorly worded statement implies the government give bus operators money on a regular basis which is false

No I did not say government give bus operators money on a regular basis. But money is given on project's and money is given to PTE`s and also there https://www.gov.uk/government/collection...nd-funding

if routes don`t make money they get cut.

(03/11/2020 18:51)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]No I did not say government give bus operators money on a regular basis. But money is given on project's and money is given to PTE`s and also there https://www.gov.uk/government/collection...nd-funding

if routes don`t make money they get cut.

Think you need to read your original comment again. It does imply they are funding things rather than a bailout. Never the less your comment about services making money or getting cut is also questionable. I’d hazard a guess that despite the transport act, there’s some journeys on some routes that don’t pay there way. Look how much competes with the Metrolink for a start.

(03/11/2020 21:38)Mayneway Wrote: [ -> ]Think you need to read your original comment again. It does imply they are funding things rather than a bailout. Never the less your comment about services making money or getting cut is also questionable. I’d hazard a guess that despite the transport act, there’s some journeys on some routes that don’t pay there way. Look how much competes with the Metrolink for a start.

Funding / bailout / tender it all the same it all bus subsidy to put a bus on a route at a set time that can`t be run as Commercial service. Am sure in many cases if money was not given some routes would still happen as other Commercial company would jump on the route so market leaders would not let this happen. but my point is money is being given to off set most of the passenger numbers lost. also,, some companies are picking up more school services. and PTE has money pots for things like tickets issues kit and they charge for them so not free. each pot would be spent on it planned for. How many Commercial routes been put to tender since covert for PTE / councils has to fund?

(03/11/2020 22:03)Mrboo Wrote: [ -> ]Funding / bailout / tender it all the same it all bus subsidy to put a bus on a route at a set time that can`t be run as Commercial service. Am sure in many cases if money was not given some routes would still happen as other Commercial company would jump on the route so market leaders would not let this happen. but my point is money is being given to off set most of the passenger numbers lost. also,, some companies are picking up more school services. and PTE has money pots for things like tickets issues kit and they charge for them so not free. each pot would be spent on it planned for. How many Commercial routes been put to tender since covert for PTE / councils has to fund?

'Money pots' isn't the right phrase, as local authorities realistically don't have enough funding to go around. Sure, investments have been made in the past for new ETMs, but this was done in the knowledge that the increased sales made possible by contactless payment would make up for the cost. At the moment because of the current crisis, funding is provided taking into account whether it really needs to be spent, and whether it would have a detrimental impact on customers. All the current temporary PTE takeovers/dupes have been implemented for good reason. School services are provided in a bid to reduce Covid transmission. Commercial routes like the 500 serve communities where this is the only service available to them, so to keep Otterspool/Brunswick connected, Merseytravel has had to step in and is constantly reviewing provisions to see if costs can be lowered, as they don't have the funds to keep running a full timetable for a service where there may only be one passenger for the entire journey. When Merseytravel have all this going on, I think providing new ticket machines for a service that may be axed/severely reduced in a few days is at the bottom of their to-do list.

(04/11/2020 00:05)Liamkennedy2231 Wrote: [ -> ]'Money pots' isn't the right phrase, as local authorities realistically don't have enough funding to go around. Sure, investments have been made in the past for new ETMs, but this was done in the knowledge that the increased sales made possible by contactless payment would make up for the cost. At the moment because of the current crisis, funding is provided taking into account whether it really needs to be spent, and whether it would have a detrimental impact on customers. All the current temporary PTE takeovers/dupes have been implemented for good reason. School services are provided in a bid to reduce Covid transmission. Commercial routes like the 500 serve communities where this is the only service available to them, so to keep Otterspool/Brunswick connected, Merseytravel has had to step in and is constantly reviewing provisions to see if costs can be lowered, as they don't have the funds to keep running a full timetable for a service where there may only be one passenger for the entire journey. When Merseytravel have all this going on, I think providing new ticket machines for a service that may be axed/severely reduced in a few days is at the bottom of their to-do list.

They are planning on replacing the ETM as they are due for replacement as they don`t do contactless payment or real time tracking. Think of it like a mobile phone they are just going to ask for new kit and pay the fee.
Now the handheld kit can be used for another use like on ferries or special events in Manchester TfGM has them on Local link most likely they have them anyway.


If you Read https://www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.u...-1-FBC.pdf

Using Transforming Cities Fund

they want to buy new ETM kit so their contactless payment on all services.

1.5 The Scheme
Merseytravel and Liverpool City Region Combined Authority (LCR CA) have agreed that the rollout of the LCR Smart Ticketing scheme (3TP) and subsequent benefit realisation will be
undertaken through two distinct phases; Phase 1, and Phase 2 with an intermediate Phase 1.5
to capture deliverables not explicitly noted within the Phase 1 programme but which are
possible following the delivery of Phase 1 without further capital investment. In this way, Phase
1 is representative of the immediate benefits that will be instigated through the installation of
new ETM technology and the Web Portal. Phase 1.5 comprises several additions that could be
undertaken following the installation of the technological infrastructure in Phase 1 but are not
part of the Phase 1 programme itself. Phase 2 then relates to the outputs that are proposed
relating to fares management following the rollout of TfN’s Project Abbot system expected to
follow in the next 2-3 years. More information on the key deliverables of each phase and the
benefits that will be attributed to each stage, are found in the following sections and subsections.
In this Business Case document, the Strategic and Management Cases will review and make
the case for the entire 3TP scheme (Phases 1, 1.5 and 2) since these will not change between
phases. However, the investment that this Business Case supports is for Phase 1 of the 3TP
scheme only (described in more detail below) and consequently, the Economic, Financial and
Commercial Cases relate only to this Phase 1 investment.

1.5.1 Phase 1
Phase 1 will help to ensure that public transport customers are provided with a modern,
consistent and secure payment and smart ticketing service across the LCR, through equipping
smaller bus operating companies, who currently lease their ETMs from Merseytravel, with new
ticket machines allowing contactless payment, onboard ticket collection, and improved journey
data recording. Through this initiative smaller bus operators will be able to cover their costs and
contribute directly to the unified smart ticketing scheme.
Another component of phase 1 is the development of a Web Portal, accessible from a range of
devices, for customer registration, management of individual travel accounts, commercial card
hot-listing (to prevent fraudulent misuse) and the sale of smart advance tickets (for collection on
board the bus).



delivery programme has been developed in relation to the first phase of the Smart Ticketing
(3TP) project in 2019 / 2020 which will further improve the ease in which passengers can
access public transport services. The programme of improvements includes the replacement of
ETMs on buses owned by smaller operators to match those being rolled out on all Arriva buses
in the region, allowing contactless payments, electronic ticket collection and improved journey
recording and data capture. This complements the existing ETM (including contactless)
provision on local Stagecoach buses. The creation of a web-portal will allow the advance
purchase of smart-tickets, enhance security and improve customer journey information. Funding
is now being sought for the Smart Ticketing scheme to achieve the goals set out later in this

Is this thread still about Selwyns?

(04/11/2020 01:32)moreton407 Wrote: [ -> ]Is this thread still about Selwyns?

I think it's become a ticket machine and political thread .